Valve: "Windows 8 a catastrophe" - Page 2

Inertiaman · 01-Aug-2012, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SphericaL

Sorry Matt tf2 has always been and is still fucking terrible as a sequal to TFC, you just agreed they bought portal and l4d the sequals dont count they were made by the companies assimilated, dota 2 is fucking aweful its sucess or failure is irrelevent a small inde company made a game based from the same thing about 4 years earlier and much much better, thats pretty embarrasing. As for gabe being a comercial genius Id agree steam is a the biggest intrusive DRM vehicle the world has ever seen ad yet people happily suck his cock for providing it.

You can't just repeat the same bollocks and claim I'm agreeing with you. TF2 is wildly popular. More so than TFC ever managed despite what a minority of ardent fans would like to be the case.

They didn't buy portal, they hired two superb developers and gave them the break of their lives, L4D was developed as a mod on source before they bought the team (second time of stating). Are you honestly berating Valve for recruiting top talent? What exactly do indie developers look to achieve if not that outcome and how exactly is a company like Valve supposed to progress and grow without expansion? Would the Narbacular Drop kids be happier still sitting in their bedrooms earning fuck all for trying to finish a half-arsed game? Would Goose?

What you think of dota2 has precisely fuck all to do with it's popularity. It's hugely popular now and will grow more so. Stating that S2 did a better or worse job of it is entirely subjective.

Is buying a string of cheap games in a single point of sale sucking cock? Would it be less cocksucky for you to go to a Game store or Play.com then? What morally superior alternative are you suggesting exists? Should I be writing games myself in order not to bend over to The Man?

Honestly - opinion is one thing - but when you lose the ability to differentiate your opinion from measured and proven interest you're on a hiding to nothing.

Inertiaman · 01-Aug-2012, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SphericaL

its included in halflife as its not exactly revolutionary its pretty itterative of the orignal but I honestly didnt enjoy it anywhere near as much as the story was no longer new.

An entirely new first person engine is not an iteration. It's a new engine. Or are you claiming it's iterative because it's a first person engine? If so Half-Life hardly trod new ground did it.

SphericaL · 01-Aug-2012, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inertiaman

An entirely new first person engine is not an iteration. It's a new engine. Or are you claiming it's iterative because it's a first person engine? If so Half-Life hardly trod new ground did it.

well since source is actualy several shitty steps backwards from goldsrc.

Inertiaman · 01-Aug-2012, 18:34

Yes as the sales figures of source based games demonstrate. Or should Valve consider it a failure because some counterstrike fans think so?

SphericaL · 01-Aug-2012, 18:37

since when is quality based on sales figures ? is justin beiber the greatest singer to ever live ? hell no but he sells the most cd's/mp3's

Inertiaman · 01-Aug-2012, 18:43

It's a fairly good indication that Valve have in fact released a good game or two since Half-Life wouldn't you say?

SphericaL · 01-Aug-2012, 18:46

No, i wouldnt say at all.

Inertiaman · 01-Aug-2012, 18:50

You sticking with the "they didn't code a line" bit as well?

wooly-back-jack · 01-Aug-2012, 19:28

valve > EA
steam > Origin

I miss the old times on WON, and I never thought I would have anything other than my HL games on steam which we were forced into doing but It's great now, got a fuckload of games on it, steam sales get us back into games that would otherwise be the pile of dusty CD's in the corner.

Hot Soup · 01-Aug-2012, 21:18

I don't think Valve themselves have released a bad game, generally excellent.

Eja Cool8 · 02-Aug-2012, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Soup

I don't think Valve themselves have released a bad game, generally excellent.

I've never played a Valve game that I didn't like, usually rather a lot. There have been bumps along the way, I feel a warm glow of nostalgia over the messing around with the various CS betas (no, really

), and imho, in the grand scheme of things, Valve have done an awful lot to enhance both the reputation of the PC as a gaming platform, and to improve the playing experience to be had thereon.

NWA · 02-Aug-2012, 17:15

Ricochet was pretty lame.

Eja Cool8 · 02-Aug-2012, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWA

Ricochet was pretty lame.

Aye, I'd forgotten about that, which says it all really...

Inertiaman · 02-Aug-2012, 17:18

I don't think I ever even loaded the copy that came free with HL.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/60..._7_7_151_150_1

3 quid on the steams! Worst deal ever!

NWA · 02-Aug-2012, 17:41

That's 2.99 too much. Think I played it literally once at an i-event, when a few other people also decided to give it a go. We all thought it was shit.

RockWhore · 02-Aug-2012, 18:11

Ricochet

Their handbook (which btw is worth a read through to get a feel for how Valve roll) states;-

Quote:

Empty Shelf on Fifth Floor—Place we’re planning on putting all those awards for Ricochet once the gaming world finally catches up with it.

Valve Handbook for New Employees

Minty · 02-Aug-2012, 18:15

We had a play on Ricochet at one of the i-LANs when it first came out. I thought it was a cracking game, but I admit Ive never played it since and nor do I know anybody else that has.

EvilGrin · 03-Aug-2012, 10:18

Valve have backed up their argument with some facts. They've ported L4D2 to Linux/OpenGL and discovered that it actually runs faster than on Windows/D3D. Oops..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08...ster_on_linux/

Spanks · 03-Aug-2012, 10:30

that handbook is amazing

Inertiaman · 03-Aug-2012, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilGrin

Valve have backed up their argument with some facts. They've ported L4D2 to Linux/OpenGL and discovered that it actually runs faster than on Windows/D3D. Oops..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08...ster_on_linux/

It's hardly a surprise though is it? Now reverse the trick and give 1000 people a Linux CD and unformatted computer. Again I'd love it if the market moved - but it's a pretty feeble thing to use such a move to knock Windows generally, especially windows 7 which is superb bit of kit in the main.

Inertiaman · 03-Aug-2012, 11:45

Sorry that sounded blunt actually - my point being (in relationship to both the article and the post) is that they would have had to really pile in the work on both the host OS and the game to get that result. Noone who bought L4D had to do a damn thing to get their fps.

Scrobbs · 03-Aug-2012, 11:56

Is it merely the fact that Windiz is getting a store up and running that has made him throw the toys out?

Although it has been said in various places that W8 is not much cop unless you have a touchscreen. Might be useful in 10 years time, but right now, not so much.

Inertiaman · 03-Aug-2012, 12:03

It's far and away the largest problem for Valve but the list far from stops there. I imagine he's also quite worried about the cack performance - splintering of the windows market into ARM/Intel/Tom/Dick/Harry who will be fairly pissed off that their tablet can't play shit - and added dev time to metro steam and apps properly.

Scrobbs · 03-Aug-2012, 12:14

Yeh, must admit when they released the new windows device that had different CPUs - clearly there will have to be 2 code bases. Imagine some devs with more limited resources will hold off until they see which one is more popular before committing.

Inertiaman · 03-Aug-2012, 12:24

Gaming doesn't represent much of a choice - the normal version will remain the standard for games and the RT (cheapy ARM etc version) will not be able to play them due to hardware issues. The pita there of course is customer expectation. Steam is awesome because you can buy anything. Now you have to run two versions, one with AA titles and one with casual. Moreover - the contractual/compliance position microsoft are laying down will ostensibly require steam to validate with and pay MS to release games. That's been a fairly miserable and expensive process on XBL I think.

T3CH^ · 03-Aug-2012, 13:24

Even Notch and Blizzard are saying windows 8 could be disastrous for indie developers/developers in general. The only hope is if MS DON'T lock it down.

BBW · 03-Aug-2012, 14:44

The problem is that 90% of PC owners are not interested in gaming, they might play the odd game of Sims etc but generally they are not "gamers". Also, the fact remains that for casual play consoles are better.

Inertiaman · 03-Aug-2012, 14:54

Firstly those numbers are woeful and clearly don't include browser based gaming which probably inverts the stat. Also what part of that seems to have been a problem for steam?

Scrobbs · 03-Aug-2012, 14:55

Oh don't start that! I rarely turn any of my consoles on any more, except to use them as media devices. Hardly ever get used for games, except the odd round of Trials/Wipeout. Games are back on the PC/iphone for me. Console games are pretty tedious generally - nowhere else can you get interesting stuff like DayZ or SpyParty.

EvilGrin · 03-Aug-2012, 15:32

I agree the modding and indie scene is what keeps PC gaming interesting. I suppose consoles have tried to capture this effect with DLC packs and XBLA for example. But it's not really worked to the same degree.

While every PC built is packaged and sold with a copy of Windows I don't see the de-facto OS platform changing by any significant margin. If Valve got into the hardware side of things and started packaging up Steam + PC Hardware + Linux and selling it via the more traditional supply chain I think they'd have a shot at getting that particular snowball rolling. But that's an entire level of escalation beyond porting L4D2 to Linux. Does Valve want to get into the console scene perhaps?

01-Aug-2012, 18:37	#35
SphericaL Fuck You! Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,154	since when is quality based on sales figures ? is justin beiber the greatest singer to ever live ? hell no but he sells the most cd's/mp3's __________________ Fueled By Satan....

01-Aug-2012, 18:46	#37
SphericaL Fuck You! Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,154	No, i wouldnt say at all. __________________ Fueled By Satan....

01-Aug-2012, 19:28	#39
wooly-back-jack Tactical Hider Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wigan Posts: 10,825	valve > EA steam > Origin I miss the old times on WON, and I never thought I would have anything other than my HL games on steam which we were forced into doing but It's great now, got a fuckload of games on it, steam sales get us back into games that would otherwise be the pile of dusty CD's in the corner. __________________ Help support the trickery.net server fund, please follow this referral for anything server related you may need!

01-Aug-2012, 21:18	#40
Hot Soup to post or not to post Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Scotland Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: 3,570	I don't think Valve themselves have released a bad game, generally excellent. __________________ "Thats a lie." "Yes it is. What's your point." Why'd you open your bong hole you smelly hippy? You'd sacrifice a beautiful woman to save a moderately attractive monkey? Hawks of the Luftwaffe!

02-Aug-2012, 18:15	#47
Minty Stick 'im wiv a blayde! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Preston Posts: 11,002	We had a play on Ricochet at one of the i-LANs when it first came out. I thought it was a cracking game, but I admit Ive never played it since and nor do I know anybody else that has. __________________ "The French like to do a poo in the shower then poke it down the hole with their toe."

03-Aug-2012, 10:18	#48
EvilGrin click here to reset post count Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lancs, UK. Posts: 5,580	Valve have backed up their argument with some facts. They've ported L4D2 to Linux/OpenGL and discovered that it actually runs faster than on Windows/D3D. Oops.. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08...ster_on_linux/ __________________ Edugeek - Techies in Education!

03-Aug-2012, 10:30	#49
Spanks GTFOMI Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5,151	that handbook is amazing __________________ <Blokefish> my bro said there was this person at uni who told everyone to call him "T-Bag" and who wore girls clothes all the time and hit on the townies

03-Aug-2012, 11:56	#52
Scrobbs Sunnyvale Supervisor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the pipe, five by five. Posts: 13,548	Is it merely the fact that Windiz is getting a store up and running that has made him throw the toys out? Although it has been said in various places that W8 is not much cop unless you have a touchscreen. Might be useful in 10 years time, but right now, not so much. __________________ http://bit.ly/debatethebill

03-Aug-2012, 12:14	#54
Scrobbs Sunnyvale Supervisor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the pipe, five by five. Posts: 13,548	Yeh, must admit when they released the new windows device that had different CPUs - clearly there will have to be 2 code bases. Imagine some devs with more limited resources will hold off until they see which one is more popular before committing. __________________ http://bit.ly/debatethebill

03-Aug-2012, 13:24	#56
T3CH^ Too old for this shit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Blairgowrie Posts: 4,324	Even Notch and Blizzard are saying windows 8 could be disastrous for indie developers/developers in general. The only hope is if MS DON'T lock it down. __________________ BF2 - T3CH200 BF2142 - T3CHNICAL BF3 - T3CHguyver R.I.P. CITY OF HEROES 'Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps.........it is time to die' pɐǝɥ ɹnoʎ ɥʇıʍ ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıop noʎ ǝɹɐ ʎɥʍ

03-Aug-2012, 14:44	#57
BBW Contains flashing images. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the woods... Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: 12,401	The problem is that 90% of PC owners are not interested in gaming, they might play the odd game of Sims etc but generally they are not "gamers". Also, the fact remains that for casual play consoles are better. __________________ "There you go... giving a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck." Xbox Live Profile :: Photoblog :: Flickr ::

03-Aug-2012, 14:55	#59
Scrobbs Sunnyvale Supervisor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the pipe, five by five. Posts: 13,548	Oh don't start that! I rarely turn any of my consoles on any more, except to use them as media devices. Hardly ever get used for games, except the odd round of Trials/Wipeout. Games are back on the PC/iphone for me. Console games are pretty tedious generally - nowhere else can you get interesting stuff like DayZ or SpyParty. __________________ http://bit.ly/debatethebill

03-Aug-2012, 15:32	#60
EvilGrin click here to reset post count Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lancs, UK. Posts: 5,580	I agree the modding and indie scene is what keeps PC gaming interesting. I suppose consoles have tried to capture this effect with DLC packs and XBLA for example. But it's not really worked to the same degree. While every PC built is packaged and sold with a copy of Windows I don't see the de-facto OS platform changing by any significant margin. If Valve got into the hardware side of things and started packaging up Steam + PC Hardware + Linux and selling it via the more traditional supply chain I think they'd have a shot at getting that particular snowball rolling. But that's an entire level of escalation beyond porting L4D2 to Linux. Does Valve want to get into the console scene perhaps? __________________ Edugeek - Techies in Education!