Footie Season 12/13 - Page 8

Beef~ · 06-Sep-2012, 11:39

erm surely the point is that United are financing their substantial transfer fees through (profitable) commercial activities rather than being by funded by some sugar daddy whose wealth has been mainly acquired by robbing their home nation?

Inertiaman · 06-Sep-2012, 11:47

Distasteful though it seems to be percieved, when did securing investment stop being a commercial activity?

Beef~ · 06-Sep-2012, 12:18

Arguably when the returns of that 'investment' are at rates which are uncommercial.

Orange · 06-Sep-2012, 12:23

Which is surely a problem for the investor, rather than UEFA?

Beef~ · 06-Sep-2012, 12:29

To the extent that the investor begins to distort the whole way the game is played on a professional level. Yes, I think there is a role for the govenring body to consider intervening when it gets to that point.

I'm sure it has been argued that it has already been like that for years but there is a distinction to be had between a club which is financially sustainable through its business and one which isn't.

Inertiaman · 06-Sep-2012, 13:08

If distortion of the game at a professional level is the metric - and the High Court couldn't pin anything on Sky as an investor when Premiership broke away in the first place and turned top flight football into the shower of hateful shit it is today, then I wouldn't hold your breath on anyone standing in the way of activity like this.

HooT · 06-Sep-2012, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cunning-stunt

This made me laugh

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...ant-fair-fight

"MANCHESTER UNITED are set to square up to arch rivals City in a bid to clip their wings using Financial Fair Play guidelines."

Until Chelsea and City came on the scene, Utd where paying out massive transfer fees, probably more than any other club in Europe. Now they don't have it there own way they are not happy.

1 Dimitar Berbatov Tottenham Hotspur £30.75 million September 2008
2 Rio Ferdinand Leeds United £29.3 million July 2002
3 Juan Sebastián Verón Lazio £28.1 million July 2001
4 Wayne Rooney Everton £27 million August 2004
5 Robin van Persie Arsenal £24 million August 2012
6 Anderson Porto £20.4 million July 2007
7 Ruud van Nistelrooy PSV Eindhoven £19 million June 2001
8 David de Gea Atlético Madrid £18.9 million June 2011
9 Michael Carrick Tottenham Hotspu £18.6 million July 2006
10 Nani Sporting CP £17.3 million July 2007

The fee's for Ferdinand & Verón are just on £30 million a decade ago, dont know what that would be today?

I do agree with this FFP, just made me laugh that Utd are one of the clubs who are trying to push it.

Hurray!! This conversation again.

#grabs calculator for complex inflation rate calculations.

Orange · 06-Sep-2012, 14:38

Distort the game? I don't necessarily include you in this beef, but the delusion of football fans is staggering, and the idea that football was a game of the Corinthians before Jack Walker and Roman Abramovich showed up is nonsense.

Beef~ · 06-Sep-2012, 15:25

Well I was specifically thinking about how this sort of money has exacerbated the rise of player's wages and transfer fees.

I wouldn't class it as of itself a radical departure from the way it work post-Premiership but it certainly hasn't helped - and when clubs who have competently managed their finances are unable to compete (or at least even further reduced the pool of clubs who are even in a position to challenge for a major title) then it seems to me that there is an issue of fairness involved.

Inertiaman · 06-Sep-2012, 15:39

Why am I reminded of the Vodafone Tax conversation?

leady · 06-Sep-2012, 16:33

If crazy foreigners want to pour all their money on silly status symbols in england - I say more power to them

nick-fury · 06-Sep-2012, 18:11

Quote:

6 Anderson Porto £20.4 million July 2007

Wow...

BBW · 06-Sep-2012, 19:26

Everyone knows transfer fees have actually gone down if anything over the last 10 years. Apart from one or two most of the monster fees were paid a decade ago!

Anyway, the key function of the FFP agreement is to ensure clubs are secured long term. If the Glazers left Man Utd nothing would happen (financially) but if the Sheik or Abroamovic left their clubs it would probably mean the end for both City and Chelsea.

Brocken · 06-Sep-2012, 19:29

I think United have bought, typically, really well over the last decade. Rooney and Ferdinand were brilliant buys even at £30m+ as they've been there a long time.

The only big money disasters have been Veron and Anderson.

BBW · 06-Sep-2012, 21:19

Well the jury is still out on Anderson tbh. He certainly hasn't delivered but there is still time. I would much rather the club persevere with players like this than sell them within a season tbh.

Brocken · 07-Sep-2012, 06:20

He has been there for 4-5 years...

Fulmineus · 08-Sep-2012, 16:19

Kenny Miller is baws.

That is all.

Smoo · 08-Sep-2012, 17:01

Seems like this is becoming a tradition so:

Euro 2016, here we come!

Decent performance from some players. Kenny Miller is indeed no longer good enough to maintain his place ahead of more accomplished finishers. Naismith and Rhodes should be considered our two main strikers (and Steven Fletcher if he wasn't a bit a twat). Charlie Adam was infuriating, living up to the potential that saw Rangers sell him to anyway that would pay. We get it, you made a 50 yard pass once but stop trying it every time you get the ball, and what was that chip shot from 18 yard line when he had two strikers in decent positions. You could hear, after the Serbia break broke down, Hutton scream "Charlie, fucking pass it". James Morrison continues to flabbergast, he doesn't play poorly, he just does nothing.

Snodgrass did alright, a bit lacking in pace but who in the Scotland squad isn't. Hutton continues his fantastic ability to win free kicks after kicking the ball out of play. Webster and Berra looked pretty solid, and Dixon made some good last minute tackles and managed to get up the pitch too. Was rather surprised to see The Guardian describe Craig Gordon as Scotland's number 1, McGregor proves every game he's miles better.

Not losing means it's not a disaster, but we drew our first game in the last qualifying campaign and it's an obvious uphill sruggle from here.

Rant over

Fulmineus · 08-Sep-2012, 17:15

What's the deal with Fletcher then, what's he done to never get picked?

Smoo · 08-Sep-2012, 17:22

He wasn't selected for the qualifiers against Spain and the Czech Republic. He then said he didn't want to be selected again, by text message. Levein said if he wanted to play again for Scotland he just had to say he's ready to come back. After 18 months of no contact, Levein has decided he's not playing again.

If Scotland had qualified for Euro 2012, I bet he'd have picked up his phone though.

Edit: Think that's the first time if done the 'then/than' mistake

Fulmineus · 08-Sep-2012, 17:25

Fair enough then.

Eja Cool8 · 10-Sep-2012, 16:38

Aye, I reckon it's a bit of a two-way thing as regards Fletch and Levein. Get them together with someone they both trust to smooth over and get it sorted, he's probably our best striker, and I'm not just saying that because he cut his teeth at Hibs

Speaking of former young Hibees, Kenny Miller's best days are definitely behind him, but he still tries like fuck to put a shift in, more than could be said about some on at Hampden on saturday....

Brocken · 15-Sep-2012, 16:51

MOTD should be good tonight.

aird · 15-Sep-2012, 18:00

Get it sorted Levin.

gil · 15-Sep-2012, 18:08

Thank god that run of games is over. It'll be nice to lose against some shit teams for a change o/

Eja Cool8 · 17-Sep-2012, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by aird

Get it sorted Levin.

Fletcher apparently open to an approach.

And he might play for Scotland again too, if the SFA get their finger oot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19617378

stepper · 18-Sep-2012, 20:18

andy · 18-Sep-2012, 21:37

Boom, in your face City!

Hot Soup · 18-Sep-2012, 22:29

Was a good match to watch. Ditto with the Newcastle Everton game last night.

Also , lol Rangers.

blurr · 18-Sep-2012, 22:37

06-Sep-2012, 11:39	#211
Beef~ crypto-pinko-fascist type Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: on the left Posts: 3,979	erm surely the point is that United are financing their substantial transfer fees through (profitable) commercial activities rather than being by funded by some sugar daddy whose wealth has been mainly acquired by robbing their home nation? __________________ res ipsa loquitur

06-Sep-2012, 12:18	#213
Beef~ crypto-pinko-fascist type Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: on the left Posts: 3,979	Arguably when the returns of that 'investment' are at rates which are uncommercial. __________________ res ipsa loquitur

06-Sep-2012, 12:29	#215
Beef~ crypto-pinko-fascist type Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: on the left Posts: 3,979	To the extent that the investor begins to distort the whole way the game is played on a professional level. Yes, I think there is a role for the govenring body to consider intervening when it gets to that point. I'm sure it has been argued that it has already been like that for years but there is a distinction to be had between a club which is financially sustainable through its business and one which isn't. __________________ res ipsa loquitur

06-Sep-2012, 15:25	#219
Beef~ crypto-pinko-fascist type Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: on the left Posts: 3,979	Well I was specifically thinking about how this sort of money has exacerbated the rise of player's wages and transfer fees. I wouldn't class it as of itself a radical departure from the way it work post-Premiership but it certainly hasn't helped - and when clubs who have competently managed their finances are unable to compete (or at least even further reduced the pool of clubs who are even in a position to challenge for a major title) then it seems to me that there is an issue of fairness involved. __________________ res ipsa loquitur

06-Sep-2012, 19:26	#223
BBW Contains flashing images. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the woods... Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: 12,401	Everyone knows transfer fees have actually gone down if anything over the last 10 years. Apart from one or two most of the monster fees were paid a decade ago! Anyway, the key function of the FFP agreement is to ensure clubs are secured long term. If the Glazers left Man Utd nothing would happen (financially) but if the Sheik or Abroamovic left their clubs it would probably mean the end for both City and Chelsea. __________________ "There you go... giving a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck." Xbox Live Profile :: Photoblog :: Flickr ::

06-Sep-2012, 12:23	#214
Orange member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,606	Which is surely a problem for the investor, rather than UEFA?

06-Sep-2012, 14:38	#218
Orange member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,606	Distort the game? I don't necessarily include you in this beef, but the delusion of football fans is staggering, and the idea that football was a game of the Corinthians before Jack Walker and Roman Abramovich showed up is nonsense.

06-Sep-2012, 16:33	#221
leady to post or not to post Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,587	If crazy foreigners want to pour all their money on silly status symbols in england - I say more power to them

06-Sep-2012, 19:29	#224
Brocken Bit lost Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,830	I think United have bought, typically, really well over the last decade. Rooney and Ferdinand were brilliant buys even at £30m+ as they've been there a long time. The only big money disasters have been Veron and Anderson.

06-Sep-2012, 21:19	#225
BBW Contains flashing images. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the woods... Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: 12,401	Well the jury is still out on Anderson tbh. He certainly hasn't delivered but there is still time. I would much rather the club persevere with players like this than sell them within a season tbh. __________________ "There you go... giving a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck." Xbox Live Profile :: Photoblog :: Flickr ::

07-Sep-2012, 06:20	#226
Brocken Bit lost Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,830	He has been there for 4-5 years...

08-Sep-2012, 16:19	#227
Fulmineus karma killer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Colchester Posts: 15,040	Kenny Miller is baws. That is all. __________________ belua vasta, lupus! udisque paludibus exit, oblitus et spumis et sparsus sanguine rictus, fulmineus, rubra suffusus lumina flamma. Say NO! to capital t Sponsored by AQA

08-Sep-2012, 17:01	#228
Smoo 10 post reply 20 goto 10 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Somewhere so boring Solitare is the national sport Posts: 8,899	Seems like this is becoming a tradition so: Euro 2016, here we come! Decent performance from some players. Kenny Miller is indeed no longer good enough to maintain his place ahead of more accomplished finishers. Naismith and Rhodes should be considered our two main strikers (and Steven Fletcher if he wasn't a bit a twat). Charlie Adam was infuriating, living up to the potential that saw Rangers sell him to anyway that would pay. We get it, you made a 50 yard pass once but stop trying it every time you get the ball, and what was that chip shot from 18 yard line when he had two strikers in decent positions. You could hear, after the Serbia break broke down, Hutton scream "Charlie, fucking pass it". James Morrison continues to flabbergast, he doesn't play poorly, he just does nothing. Snodgrass did alright, a bit lacking in pace but who in the Scotland squad isn't. Hutton continues his fantastic ability to win free kicks after kicking the ball out of play. Webster and Berra looked pretty solid, and Dixon made some good last minute tackles and managed to get up the pitch too. Was rather surprised to see The Guardian describe Craig Gordon as Scotland's number 1, McGregor proves every game he's miles better. Not losing means it's not a disaster, but we drew our first game in the last qualifying campaign and it's an obvious uphill sruggle from here. Rant over __________________ Smoo - Super Pedant by day, Asleep by night. Dreams are like rainbows. Only idiots chase them. De tik yer jerb!!

08-Sep-2012, 17:15	#229
Fulmineus karma killer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Colchester Posts: 15,040	What's the deal with Fletcher then, what's he done to never get picked? __________________ belua vasta, lupus! udisque paludibus exit, oblitus et spumis et sparsus sanguine rictus, fulmineus, rubra suffusus lumina flamma. Say NO! to capital t Sponsored by AQA

08-Sep-2012, 17:22	#230
Smoo 10 post reply 20 goto 10 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Somewhere so boring Solitare is the national sport Posts: 8,899	He wasn't selected for the qualifiers against Spain and the Czech Republic. He then said he didn't want to be selected again, by text message. Levein said if he wanted to play again for Scotland he just had to say he's ready to come back. After 18 months of no contact, Levein has decided he's not playing again. If Scotland had qualified for Euro 2012, I bet he'd have picked up his phone though. Edit: Think that's the first time if done the 'then/than' mistake __________________ Smoo - Super Pedant by day, Asleep by night. Dreams are like rainbows. Only idiots chase them. De tik yer jerb!! Last edited by Smoo; 08-Sep-2012 at 17:26.

08-Sep-2012, 17:25	#231
Fulmineus karma killer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Colchester Posts: 15,040	Fair enough then. __________________ belua vasta, lupus! udisque paludibus exit, oblitus et spumis et sparsus sanguine rictus, fulmineus, rubra suffusus lumina flamma. Say NO! to capital t Sponsored by AQA

10-Sep-2012, 16:38	#232
Eja Cool8 Member shown actual size Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 9,009	Aye, I reckon it's a bit of a two-way thing as regards Fletch and Levein. Get them together with someone they both trust to smooth over and get it sorted, he's probably our best striker, and I'm not just saying that because he cut his teeth at Hibs Speaking of former young Hibees, Kenny Miller's best days are definitely behind him, but he still tries like fuck to put a shift in, more than could be said about some on at Hampden on saturday.... __________________ "A friend of mine described her disgust as two Blackwater mercs, shortly after introducing themselves, proposed a two-on-one sex act that involved one of the men ejaculating on the other." Steve Fainaru: "Big Boy Rules"

15-Sep-2012, 16:51	#233
Brocken Bit lost Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,830	MOTD should be good tonight.

15-Sep-2012, 18:00	#234
aird Dangerzone! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Glasgow Posts: 6,829	Get it sorted Levin. __________________ Water? Never touch the stuff! Fish f**k in it.

15-Sep-2012, 18:08	#235
gil T-Bag sucks Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Berkshire Posts: 3,419	Thank god that run of games is over. It'll be nice to lose against some shit teams for a change o/ __________________ flickr Last edited by gil; 15-Sep-2012 at 19:13.

18-Sep-2012, 21:37	#238
andy previously milk! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London Posts: 3,347	Boom, in your face City!

18-Sep-2012, 22:29	#239
Hot Soup to post or not to post Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Scotland Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: 3,570	Was a good match to watch. Ditto with the Newcastle Everton game last night. Also , lol Rangers. __________________ "Thats a lie." "Yes it is. What's your point." Why'd you open your bong hole you smelly hippy? You'd sacrifice a beautiful woman to save a moderately attractive monkey? Hawks of the Luftwaffe!

18-Sep-2012, 22:37	#240
blurr fashion victim Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 18,450	__________________ + myembers