Trickery Advice

cunning-stunt · 07-Sep-2012, 12:21

I know some of you guy's are good at this stuff, so here goes...

At the beginning of August, the wife and I had called into a local retail park and as I have a Blue badge, we parked in a Disabled bay, made sure the badge was displayed properly, and went into one of the shops. When we came out after about half an hour, there was a ticket on the car.

As we are driving out of the park, I see a Parking Attendant. I asked him to explain why he had issued the ticket, to which he replied that the Blue badge was out of date, and it had ran out on
2/12. I took the badge of the dashboard and showed him it does not run out till 12/12. He then asked if I had two badges?

He then admits his mistake, but say's I will have to get the badge photocopied, and when I get the fine through, I appeal and send them the copy. I asked him if he photographed the car, and he said yes, so I said photograph the badge as well, which he refused to do.

So today I get a fine of £90, and I phone this private company's customer service line, and explain everything that happened, none of this was my fault, and the fault lay with there employee, and I refuse to get the badge photocopied. They have said after 14 days the fine will increase, and then a debt company will be involved.

I know all I need to do is get the badge copied, but as I haven't done anything wrong, I don't see why I should. Also, I am still on crutches for at least another 2 weeks after my op, and it's not easy getting around. Any advice really appreciated.

Inertiaman · 07-Sep-2012, 12:25

Local Newspaper.

Q-Target · 07-Sep-2012, 12:27

Option 1: Toe the line, photocopy the badge, minimise arse ache.

Option 2: Let them get on with it while you put your foot down (carefully) and see how understanding a third party debt collection agent is to your plight.

Option 3: What ^ he said

HooT · 07-Sep-2012, 12:53

Working for a collection agency, I would suggest getting the photocopy done and putting an end to it before it gets to Debt Recovery.

You don't want the added fees for starters. It'll be another £40 plus interest charges which are all statutory fees.

They may also add administration charges for letters they send (can easily be £20 per letter).

I appreciate that this guy could have taken a picture of your badge and ended the issue straight away, but he wants his commission for stitching you up.

Traffic Wardens are bastards.

Local Newspaper is a great idea too btw. But if you can't be arsed to photocopy a badge can you be arsed to write a letter to the paper?

Minty · 07-Sep-2012, 12:54

Refuse to pay it. As theyre a private company you have no legal obligation to pay them.

Beef~ · 07-Sep-2012, 12:59

Not sure that's bits true but yes the best idea seems to be to just do it and get on with something (anything) else.

burundi · 07-Sep-2012, 13:13

You had two choices.

1.Ignore them completely and they'd have you sent you loads of letters and then given up (happened to my wife, she held fast and ignored all the letters and they've stopped bothering)

2.Appeal as you did.

Choice 1 has gone now as you contacted them and admitted you had parked there. So they now have proof it was you driving the car that day, so your only route is to use their appeals process, so photocopy the badge and send it to them along with any paperwork which indicates when you got the badge and when it expires.

If they persist after that then speak to a solicitor. It is a charge not a fine, only councils and police can fine a motorist, private companies must levy a charge based on dubious contract law, if you have sound proof including a photograph of the car displaying a badge then the contract hasn't been breached and they have no grounds to levy any additional charges.

If they refer it to an alleged debt company (usually a sub sidiary company also owned by the same low lifes) advise the debt company the payment is in dispute and they MUST not communicate with you any further until the dispute has been resolved, I understand they are obliged to do this with disputed debts.

There is a great thread or thirty on the motoring site pepipoo: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

Nomad · 07-Sep-2012, 13:38

^
option 2 + option 3: debt collection companies do not want bad press. they are usually quite understanding. explain the fact you have a valid badge, the fault lies with the local company who know this but have ignored it and are trying it on. explain you understand that they will not want to be included and named when you go to the local press/trading ombudsman etc... and if they come round, you are not giving them permission to enter but will gladly show them the valid badge. i think you may have to wear garlic also.

if you dispute it, as burundi states, they should hang fire. in a similar situation, i did as above and offered them to crack on with their attempt in the meantime as they would just be wasting their own time and i'd come after them legally afterwards as it was not a valid case. the next i heard was them writing to formally inform me they were taking no action until it was resolved followed by a further solicitor's letter stating it was cancelled.

if the warden states your badge was out of date, then he should have photographed it and his pic should show he's talking bs so it makes his claim invalid. request they check their copies of the pics showing the alleged out of date badge.

jimbobaggies · 07-Sep-2012, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad

if the warden states your badge was out of date, then he should have photographed it and his pic should show he's talking bs so it makes his claim invalid. request they check their copies of the pics showing the alleged out of date badge.

QFT.

Bilb · 07-Sep-2012, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooT

Working for a collection agency, I would suggest getting the photocopy done and putting an end to it before it gets to Debt Recovery.

You don't want the added fees for starters. It'll be another £40 plus interest charges which are all statutory fees.

They may also add administration charges for letters they send (can easily be £20 per letter).

I appreciate that this guy could have taken a picture of your badge and ended the issue straight away, but he wants his commission for stitching you up.

Traffic Wardens are bastards.

Local Newspaper is a great idea too btw. But if you can't be arsed to photocopy a badge can you be arsed to write a letter to the paper?

Ok, you may work for a collection agency. BUT.

If the fine is not valid, then it doesn't matter how many threatening letters they send and supposedly charge £20 for. He's called, told them what they need to know. They can't add fees to something that isn't a legitimate claim.

I'd be awkward and let them threaten to take me to court!

[RaG]Ethel · 07-Sep-2012, 15:36

open it in notepad

Orange · 07-Sep-2012, 15:49

Anything for the easy life, I wouldn't underestimate how much of a pain this could turn out to be.

Ashen · 07-Sep-2012, 15:55

Take the path of least resistance - avoid the headache.

StarMonkey · 07-Sep-2012, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashen

Take the path of least resistance - avoid the headache.

I vote for that as well!

HooT · 07-Sep-2012, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilb

Ok, you may work for a collection agency. BUT.

If the fine is not valid, then it doesn't matter how many threatening letters they send and supposedly charge £20 for. He's called, told them what they need to know. They can't add fees to something that isn't a legitimate claim.

I'd be awkward and let them threaten to take me to court!

I agree with what your saying Bilb and my company certainly wouldn't take on debts like this, but others do.

Until they have proof that the claim is not valid they will likely consider it to be a perfectly valid debt that has been passed to them by the third party. As such they can put whatever statutory charges they like.

If the however the debt is queried and is deemed to be invalid then yes all subsequent fees would be expunged.

It's a matter of whether you want to have a stare down competition with a Debt Collection agency tbh.

If it was my company for example we wouldn't put a massive amount of time and effort into it as it's only £90. Maybe a few calls and letters. We'd probably not bother with court and hope the bluff got you to pay - other companies may take it to small claims court though as these fees can also be added to the total debt.

If you have a branch of Citizen's advice bureau near you I would also recommend going down and having a chat with them. They are very good at helping the "little man" in these kinds of cases. They can contact the company in question and back your query too.

Best of luck with it though. If you want to pm me about it then please do. I can only really comment on how our Debt Recovery arm would deal with a case like this however.

neo-Cranks · 07-Sep-2012, 17:37

Photocopy the badge and put an end to it.

Otherwise it'll cause you further stress as you get deeper into a civil dispute.

cunning-stunt · 07-Sep-2012, 19:18

Guy's, thanks for all the replies. Not sure what I'm going to do yet. I really want to do what Bilb said about being awkward and see if they take me to court, but I'm not sure I could deal with that at the moment.Thanks for everyone's input, gives me a bit to think about over the weekend.

Harry Palmer · 08-Sep-2012, 08:12

Photocopy it, smear shit on the other side, post.

HooT · 08-Sep-2012, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Palmer

Photocopy it, smear shit on the other side, post.

Hahaha! brilliant.

qui · 08-Sep-2012, 10:15

Another vote for the photocopy it and forget it brigade.

Lord Fondlemaid · 09-Sep-2012, 05:07

Such spineless people here! :-)

Compliance for the sake of convenience will exacerbate the fundamental problem.

Resistance, whilst exposing you to some personal embuggerance, will help throw a spanner in the works of this kind of shitty Big Corp vs. Small Guy wankery.

By the sounds of it you're not going to end up the loser in this situation no matter which course you take, so why not be as much of a pain in the arse as you can be?

They started it :-)

BBW · 09-Sep-2012, 09:32

^ This. Phone them up, say "I've explained that you've made an error, bring it on".

DJCarlos · 09-Sep-2012, 09:48

Heh, what an excellent word, embuggerance.

[n00b]Zippy · 09-Sep-2012, 11:27

Terry Pratchett, I think?

Nomad · 09-Sep-2012, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBW

^ This. Phone them up, say "I've explained that you've made an error, bring it on".

^^, you have done more than required already, you had a valid badge and had ensured it was on display, you went through the effort of explaining to the attendant that he had made a mistake and he was not interested, you phoned them etc... and they were not interested. they should have the photo and be able to see it was a valid date and were not prepared to check so what, you hop round there and place a copy in the persons view directly? don't bother, you've done enough by informing them. All that you may possibly want to do is put a copy in writing and send recorded delivery so you have proof you explained this to them, I would not include the photocopy of the badge because their person should have taken a record of the 'invalid badge' if he was doing his job correctly.

there are no charges that can validly be brought against you as you did nothing wrong, you have explained this to them, you are disabled so can't get to photocopy and send easily hence why you have the fucking badge and why should you, they made the error, they have not been willing to put any effort in to this.

call the local paper, explain the situation, try and look sad as they take a photo of you holding your badge, the parking firm can read the date off that in the paper if they want to check.

contact the debt collectors, explain not valid and it's being disputed and that you have gone to the local press about this and ombudsman. even if this went to court etc... you did nothing wrong.

you have done nothing wrong, so think of this as a fun game, plus you are sticking up for those too crippled/meek to stand up for themselves who would go without to pay the fine they cannot afford because they get confused and aren't sure if they had the badge on show that time, what if it was your mum/granny? any pics of wife?

Lord Fondlemaid · 09-Sep-2012, 13:44

lol "any pics pics of wife?"

Orange · 09-Sep-2012, 13:53

This isn't exactly Rosa Parks. If you want to stop aggressive debt collecting then harass your MP to do something about it.

dehp · 09-Sep-2012, 13:55

if it's a private company just ignore it

Minty · 09-Sep-2012, 15:07

I said that already, seems to have been largely ignored

Just tell them to prove that the badge wasnt valid and if they cant, job done.

Hapless · 09-Sep-2012, 18:49

There's Good advice, there's Bad advice. And then there's Trickery advice.

07-Sep-2012, 12:21	#1
cunning-stunt will post for food Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,203	Trickery Advice I know some of you guy's are good at this stuff, so here goes... At the beginning of August, the wife and I had called into a local retail park and as I have a Blue badge, we parked in a Disabled bay, made sure the badge was displayed properly, and went into one of the shops. When we came out after about half an hour, there was a ticket on the car. As we are driving out of the park, I see a Parking Attendant. I asked him to explain why he had issued the ticket, to which he replied that the Blue badge was out of date, and it had ran out on 2/12. I took the badge of the dashboard and showed him it does not run out till 12/12. He then asked if I had two badges? He then admits his mistake, but say's I will have to get the badge photocopied, and when I get the fine through, I appeal and send them the copy. I asked him if he photographed the car, and he said yes, so I said photograph the badge as well, which he refused to do. So today I get a fine of £90, and I phone this private company's customer service line, and explain everything that happened, none of this was my fault, and the fault lay with there employee, and I refuse to get the badge photocopied. They have said after 14 days the fine will increase, and then a debt company will be involved. I know all I need to do is get the badge copied, but as I haven't done anything wrong, I don't see why I should. Also, I am still on crutches for at least another 2 weeks after my op, and it's not easy getting around. Any advice really appreciated. Last edited by cunning-stunt; 07-Sep-2012 at 12:24.

07-Sep-2012, 12:27	#3
Q-Target he'll hoof you in the works Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brighton Posts: 35,837	Option 1: Toe the line, photocopy the badge, minimise arse ache. Option 2: Let them get on with it while you put your foot down (carefully) and see how understanding a third party debt collection agent is to your plight. Option 3: What ^ he said __________________ Making people say "oh fuck off" at their monitor since 1973 (before monitors were invented) twitter Huffington Post Comedy Blog Animangle Zoo Other Photoshop stuff

07-Sep-2012, 12:53	#4
HooT spam tbh Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 849	Working for a collection agency, I would suggest getting the photocopy done and putting an end to it before it gets to Debt Recovery. You don't want the added fees for starters. It'll be another £40 plus interest charges which are all statutory fees. They may also add administration charges for letters they send (can easily be £20 per letter). I appreciate that this guy could have taken a picture of your badge and ended the issue straight away, but he wants his commission for stitching you up. Traffic Wardens are bastards. Local Newspaper is a great idea too btw. But if you can't be arsed to photocopy a badge can you be arsed to write a letter to the paper? __________________ http://sig.planetside-universe.com/Hoo7.png Planetside 2: Woodman Server : Hoo7 (NC)

07-Sep-2012, 12:54	#5
Minty Stick 'im wiv a blayde! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Preston Posts: 10,997	Refuse to pay it. As theyre a private company you have no legal obligation to pay them. __________________ "The French like to do a poo in the shower then poke it down the hole with their toe."

07-Sep-2012, 12:59	#6
Beef~ crypto-pinko-fascist type Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: on the left Posts: 3,979	Not sure that's bits true but yes the best idea seems to be to just do it and get on with something (anything) else. __________________ res ipsa loquitur

07-Sep-2012, 13:13	#7
burundi WARNING: May contain nuts Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Prestonia Posts: 10,533	You had two choices. 1.Ignore them completely and they'd have you sent you loads of letters and then given up (happened to my wife, she held fast and ignored all the letters and they've stopped bothering) 2.Appeal as you did. Choice 1 has gone now as you contacted them and admitted you had parked there. So they now have proof it was you driving the car that day, so your only route is to use their appeals process, so photocopy the badge and send it to them along with any paperwork which indicates when you got the badge and when it expires. If they persist after that then speak to a solicitor. It is a charge not a fine, only councils and police can fine a motorist, private companies must levy a charge based on dubious contract law, if you have sound proof including a photograph of the car displaying a badge then the contract hasn't been breached and they have no grounds to levy any additional charges. If they refer it to an alleged debt company (usually a sub sidiary company also owned by the same low lifes) advise the debt company the payment is in dispute and they MUST not communicate with you any further until the dispute has been resolved, I understand they are obliged to do this with disputed debts. There is a great thread or thirty on the motoring site pepipoo: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60 __________________ Want UnLtd Mobile Data & Texts for £12 a month PAYG? - Order a free GiffGaff SIM via this link and get an additional free £5 credit. At £12 a month data is unlimited with no fair usage policy! ** Have you added yourself to the trickery members map ** WANTED: Something witty to go here. Last edited by burundi; 07-Sep-2012 at 13:25.

07-Sep-2012, 13:38	#8
Nomad i fear no midget Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,660	^ option 2 + option 3: debt collection companies do not want bad press. they are usually quite understanding. explain the fact you have a valid badge, the fault lies with the local company who know this but have ignored it and are trying it on. explain you understand that they will not want to be included and named when you go to the local press/trading ombudsman etc... and if they come round, you are not giving them permission to enter but will gladly show them the valid badge. i think you may have to wear garlic also. if you dispute it, as burundi states, they should hang fire. in a similar situation, i did as above and offered them to crack on with their attempt in the meantime as they would just be wasting their own time and i'd come after them legally afterwards as it was not a valid case. the next i heard was them writing to formally inform me they were taking no action until it was resolved followed by a further solicitor's letter stating it was cancelled. if the warden states your badge was out of date, then he should have photographed it and his pic should show he's talking bs so it makes his claim invalid. request they check their copies of the pics showing the alleged out of date badge. Last edited by Nomad; 07-Sep-2012 at 13:44.

07-Sep-2012, 15:36	#11
[RaG]Ethel Alfa Male Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Northumberland Posts: 12,952	open it in notepad __________________ photoblog

07-Sep-2012, 15:49	#12
Orange member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,638	Anything for the easy life, I wouldn't underestimate how much of a pain this could turn out to be.

07-Sep-2012, 17:37	#16
neo-Cranks poster of the month Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Do a barrel roll! Posts: 1,492	Photocopy the badge and put an end to it. Otherwise it'll cause you further stress as you get deeper into a civil dispute. __________________ History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.

07-Sep-2012, 19:18	#17
cunning-stunt will post for food Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,203	Guy's, thanks for all the replies. Not sure what I'm going to do yet. I really want to do what Bilb said about being awkward and see if they take me to court, but I'm not sure I could deal with that at the moment.Thanks for everyone's input, gives me a bit to think about over the weekend.

08-Sep-2012, 08:12	#18
Harry Palmer Gun nut Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: War Zone Posts: 13,994	Photocopy it, smear shit on the other side, post. __________________ Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. Reminder: "Do not look into laser with remaining good eye."

08-Sep-2012, 10:15	#20
qui Iron Man 2 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Uk Posts: 3,624	Another vote for the photocopy it and forget it brigade. __________________ i-rox - rtfm - yoga - dvorak - qupp - timmeh - japan & nz - marik

09-Sep-2012, 05:07	#21
Lord Fondlemaid Colossal Pervert Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,689	Such spineless people here! :-) Compliance for the sake of convenience will exacerbate the fundamental problem. Resistance, whilst exposing you to some personal embuggerance, will help throw a spanner in the works of this kind of shitty Big Corp vs. Small Guy wankery. By the sounds of it you're not going to end up the loser in this situation no matter which course you take, so why not be as much of a pain in the arse as you can be? They started it :-) __________________ Trickery's leading Internet Groomer. "Who, or why, or which, or what... is the Akond of Swat?" www.djdanbooth.com

09-Sep-2012, 09:32	#22
BBW Contains flashing images. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the woods... Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: 12,401	^ This. Phone them up, say "I've explained that you've made an error, bring it on". __________________ "There you go... giving a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck." Xbox Live Profile :: Photoblog :: Flickr ::

09-Sep-2012, 09:48	#23
DJCarlos pro poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 753	Heh, what an excellent word, embuggerance. __________________ http://djcarlos.co.uk (new and improved) http://www.transmissionfm.com http://www.myclubbingspace.com http://i-rox.com " I dont know, only god knows where the story ends for me, but I know where the story begins. Its up to us to choose wether we win or lose, and I choose to win."

09-Sep-2012, 11:27	#24
[n00b]Zippy Unstartable Sex Machine Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Great Rollright Posts: 11,542	Terry Pratchett, I think? __________________ I wish I were a glow worm A glow worm's never glum 'Cause how can you be grumpy When the sun shines out your bum?

09-Sep-2012, 13:44	#26
Lord Fondlemaid Colossal Pervert Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,689	lol "any pics pics of wife?" __________________ Trickery's leading Internet Groomer. "Who, or why, or which, or what... is the Akond of Swat?" www.djdanbooth.com

09-Sep-2012, 13:53	#27
Orange member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,638	This isn't exactly Rosa Parks. If you want to stop aggressive debt collecting then harass your MP to do something about it.

09-Sep-2012, 13:55	#28
dehp got topic a topic or two Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sunderland Posts: 2,908	if it's a private company just ignore it __________________ XBL: Flabbergash vaginaboob

09-Sep-2012, 15:07	#29
Minty Stick 'im wiv a blayde! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Preston Posts: 10,997	I said that already, seems to have been largely ignored Just tell them to prove that the badge wasnt valid and if they cant, job done. __________________ "The French like to do a poo in the shower then poke it down the hole with their toe."

09-Sep-2012, 18:49	#30
Hapless Prince of All Oafs Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Reading, Writing & Arithmetic Posts: 4,302	There's Good advice, there's Bad advice. And then there's Trickery advice. __________________ Championing the cause of Status Anxiety sufferers since 1969.