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Old 14-Nov-2008, 11:33   #1
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CB's loller thread of England Cricket 08/09

Stolzed Napoleon's idea ftw!

Barring an appearance by Khaz or Bug this will I suspect just serve as a private place for me to vent frustration at our team - interesting to see KP explain what amounts to a 3rd total mental collapse in a row.

7 ODI's and only 2 test matches is a fucking joke at the best of times. The Indian cricket board really are power and money crazed nazi's.

However, even on a flat wicket with small boundaries, India's 387 in 50 overs was utterly magnificent! They really are a very VERY strong side now. They always were at home but I believe with Sharma and the new spinner along with Zaheer and their amazing batting order they could start to dominate away from home too.

For the record here is the scorecard today

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...rd/default.stm
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Old 14-Nov-2008, 11:55   #2
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Barring an appearance by Khaz or Bug this will I suspect just serve as a private place for me to vent frustration at our team


It was almost our worst ever One Day defeat, and that's saying something.
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Old 14-Nov-2008, 12:41   #3
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Sorry Lungers Glad to have you aboard!

Regardless of the brilliance of India's batting - Youvraj was just unreal - to only bat 37 overs on a pitch that good in response is just an insult. Even if you can't win the game you bat on and get closer than that! KP and Bopara aside it's another shower of awful shots and lazyness. Being beaten is NOT the issue here. That happens to great teams too sometimes.

Prior has disolved under the weight of the England shirt yet again - 3 abject failures out of 3 on tour so far. Freddie and Anderson got shocking LBW decisions by the sounds of it but that is frankly to be expected on the sub-continent (no racism or sour grapes intended, just realism).

Still, this is where the job starts for you KP my lad. Captaining is easy when it all goes well. Be interesting to see what he does for the 2nd game. Patel looked very ordinary with the ball (I'm tempted to say "again" but maybe that is premature). Why has Panasar been left out of the 50 over format all of a sudden? In 20-20 I can understand it to an extent but in India over 50 overs a really good spinner needs to play imho.
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Old 14-Nov-2008, 13:24   #4
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Bopara may have scored well, but his running is woeful. He ran out both KP and Harmison.
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Old 14-Nov-2008, 13:50   #5
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Does anyone actually care about cricket now? With all this Indian money league bullshit, it is clearly about money now than winning a test.
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Old 14-Nov-2008, 14:07   #6
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The fans still care
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Old 14-Nov-2008, 16:24   #7
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Aye - I'm "old" so I still love test matches. Got my ticket for Lords Ashes test (best mate's dad in MCC nepotism of win) - cant fucking wait!

ODI and 20-20 has gone way too far I fear. It is an exciting game of course but the Indian's are far too powerful for any good to come of the game now. Their massive cricket population and TV rights has probably sent the game down the slope to damnation with the ICL. Thing is I suppose, cricket just doesn't attract ANY money or viewers. People moan about Sky getting all the rights but the simple fact is that noone else wants it enough to bid on it and without Sky it would be far far worse already. Damned if you do, etc....
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Old 17-Nov-2008, 12:14   #8
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...nd/7732666.stm

Another capitulation. Another resounding for my lol thread

What the hell is going on when Patel is so fat and rubbish he only bowls 5 overs, while Bopara bowls none AND comes in to bat below him??

Panasar should be bowling 10 overs EVERY game on this tour. His batting is totally irrelevent as these last 2 games have proved. Even India's batsman are better spinners than our "spinner".

Fair play to Youvraj again though - 118 off 122 and 4 for 28! Pick the bones out of that heh.
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Old 17-Nov-2008, 16:50   #9
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I was talking about this to a mate earlier. We are of the opinion that India will get it to 6-0 in the series, and then play the final game like a 20/20 game to see if they can declare in a one-day match to really rub in how shit we are.
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Old 20-Nov-2008, 12:57   #10
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/.../scorecard.stm

Oh the lollerness of it.

India is not the easiest place to play of course but I get the feeling that KP doesn't really know what he's doing out there now. Dropping Prior to 8 highlights how awful he's been and fair play to Bopara for getting a decent knock but it's still square pegs in round holes. It strikes me we have too many "all rounders" who aren't brilliant at anything and not enough specialists we can rely on.

Bringing in Swann was a good choice but 2 matches too late. No Panasar looks more absurd as the days go by. Patel again only given 3 overs. WHY IS HE THERE THEN??!

Losing a paceman while Anderson had another one of his wanker days is also poor timing. I am still not convinced Anderson is of the required calibre but that's for another rant.

Bopara again not asked to bowl at all - why? We are clearly struggling to contain India other than via Flintoff and Broad (both of whom bowled well again today). Collingwood also not bowling at all - he's not worth a place in the team just to catch ffs! His batting is so bad at the moment that if he's not in as a bowler he should be dropped!

Having picked Bopara ahead of Mascaranas etc he should bat and bowl imo. Bell/Fred/KP/Shah/Swann/Broad are also fine where they are but that is only just over half a team?!

I know Sidebottom is injured but Anderson/Prior/Collingwood/Patel are total passangers imho.
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Old 20-Nov-2008, 13:08   #11
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It really is shit isn't it. The selectors seem to be having a laugh at our expense.
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Old 24-Nov-2008, 14:10   #12
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well with a return of cricket threads i'll make a come back tour (just need dale to post some rugby ones and i'll be back in my comfy chair like nothing ever happened!)

i'll be honest and say that i've not really taken that much notice of this series, I find one dayers boring and too easily predictable after about the first 30 overs of the match, especially when england are playing. 20-20 i like because at least it's over quickly if it's one sided rather than dragged out for another 60 overs or so.

I'm actually not too doom and gloom about these games though, we got blown away in the first two but really only by one man and the previous two we've started to gain some ground and get a bit better, which can only be good practice for the important games, the test matchs.

I agree that our players are the wrong players and our batting order is also wrong and confused. Prior is out of his depth, and is consistently out of his depth every time he's picked, it's not like he's even a good keeper so i really don't see why he keeps getting picked, except for the fact he's from sussex i guess.

Anderson is a tough one, when he's on song i think he's one of the best new white ball bowlers in the world, and give him a bit of moisture in the air he's unplayable, but sadly that only occurs maybe 2 in every 8 games, the rest of the time he's predictable and leaks boundaries, he's very frustrating as he doesn't seem to have improved his consistency, although in his defence he does seem to always be the first to be dropped despite others being worse.

I don't think Broad is an opening bowler, if i'm honest i don't think he's much of a bowler at all really, he's ok but he's never going to rip through a side regularly, and that's the main problem we have, we have no one that can tear through a side. Flintoff will steady the ship and take the occasional wicket, harmison will take a couple of wickets but give away a dozen boundaries, even the mighty monty has become a leaky bucket these days.

Shah needs a longer run in the side, like jimmy he's always the first to be dropped despite being better than the others, bopara and patel i can't really see the point in, they're the modern day mark ealham, 20 with the bat, 35-45 with the ball, it won't win you matchs.

I think mascheranas being dropped was a waste, yeah he might be too old for the next cup but he takes the pressure off the top order a bit as they can rely on someone later on to hit the sixes, so they get more experience and get better rather than getting pressured into slogging then arsing it up. I also think luke wright should have been perservered with, when he did get in he would be deadly and he was a good fielder.

I know i'm biased for a long time towards the bloke, but i really do think Chris Read should be the keeper in one dayers, i've accepted he's never going to be good enough to be a test keeper because of his batting, but in odi's he's like jack russell in that he improvises a lot and gets quick runs, pisses the opposition bowlers off and unsettles the field, this is what we need, combine that with a middle order ian bell and you can milk the ones and twos during the middle overs, which is what all the good sides do, we don't seem to be able to get out of the mindset that it's either block, four or six.

I agree India have become a very good side, but i can't see them going on to dominate outside of the sub-continent, no reason why other than history, they've always had a great batting line up and good bowlers but folded like a pack of cards abroad, it's a comfort zone thing i think, similar to england abroad.
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 09:12   #13
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Does anyone actually care about cricket now? With all this Indian money league bullshit, it is clearly about money now than winning a test.
I suppose India beating Australia 2-0 in a four test series doesnt count then?

And what's this rubbish about being weak abroad? This used to be true for India, not anymore. We've beaten Pakistan, England, West Indies and even drawn with Australia since 2001 (All of these are away series). South Africa remains the only blip.

I still don't understand why Flintoff and Harmison aren't opening the bowling. Especially in Bangalore. To be fair, I haven't been interested in ODI matches in a very long time, I enjoy watching test matches more. I'm just waiting for these ODI games to finish so I can watch the test ones. Personally, I feel England will get beaten even more comprehensively in their whites.
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 13:12   #14
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Collingwood is batting ahead of Owais Shah when the former has had a shitty series and has no runs, no wickets. Shah has runs and batted wonderfully last game so really, what are England thinking?
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 13:59   #15
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What a surprise, Flintoff coming out and saying that he feels that English players not taking part in the IPL has hurt our one day side. Wonder where he wants to go and play then.....
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 15:00   #16
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poor performance so far by our opening bowlers, harmison and broad giving away runs for fun :\

The batting wasn't too bad, but i agree with khaz shah should never have been behind colly, and why on earth drop bell for cook who's even worse at one dayers??? I hate to be too daily mail when it comes to sacking or dropping people, but seriously, peter moores is utterly clueless, he hasn't done a single good thing in the whole time he's been coach, the only possible exception was ryan sidebottom, everyone else he's brought in has been a complete duffer.

I don't think broad is a good bowler and certainly not an opener (he'll be getting his hat trick just as i type this obviously), i can see him being the eventual replacement for flintoff as the 'all-rounder' but he shouldn't be being picked as a front line seamer imo.

I guess the problem is, yet again, we have picked completely the wrong squad for the conditions.

I also agree that we'll get raped even harder come the test matches, simply because india will bat first, put up a half decent score and skittle us out twice due to inept batting rather more than good bowling. With the occasional exception of Pietersen our entire batting order has lost the plot and all ability to build an innings and stay in past 60, getting to 50 seems to be viewed as job done "relax and enjoy yourself" time.
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 17:29   #17
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Bug and Khaz \o/

As I type we are getting reamed again. Fair play to India - utterly magnificent on home soil. Good to see KP get some runs and Shah again shows his class. We all agree here I think - Shah needs a run in both teams - his technique and versatility make him a shoe in for the test side imho - probably at Collingwoods expense off the top of my head. Recalling Harmison for the Stanford game in the WI was not a bad call - having him play in the ODI's as a warm up for test matches is also a good idea in principle given his notorious slow starting on tours - BUT, not playing Panasar on this tour is just pathetic.
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 17:31   #18
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...rd/default.stm

Even more "loller" worthy when you consider Sehwag got a shocker!
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 19:19   #19
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dhoni too, it's got so bad that the home umpire is giving his own team out just to give us a chance :/

They have to bring monty in for the final two games, just for the sake of getting some match practice in seeing as this odi series was clearly a waste of time in terms of other players showing us what they can do (ie nothing).

I notice that monty isn't in the squad though so i don't know how that affects him being able to be picked, are there rules on only being allowed to pick from the squad or is it just a courtesy to those that were picked originally? At the moment only Shah, Pietersen and Flintoff deserve their spot on merit, the rest are just making up numbers most of the time, looking at the county averages though there is no one else to pick, all the best batsmen and bowlers are foreign, I guess one of the many good things about the IPL is that none of them will bother playing in england for much longer
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 19:36   #20
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While I agree on the inept batting from England (Barring Shah and Pietersen) the bowling from India isn't being given enough credit. Zaheer is bowling so well its amazing he hasn't been given a man of the match award yet (especially in the match in Bangalore) and Ishant Sharma is always taking crucial wickets. Not to mention, in this match and the last one when it looked like England just might run away with the run rate, India put on the brakes.

Best moment of the series, Flintoff walks out in a cap expecting spin, Dhoni brings on Ishant, Flintoff gets wtfkerpwned.
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Old 26-Nov-2008, 20:58   #21
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Sorry, it's an English habit, deride our own team without giving any credit to the opposition, it's just that in the majority of cases we have a batsman well set, does all the hard work of getting in, then swings at a wide one or does something equally stupid for no reason.

India have bowled very well and not allowed england into the games for more than an over or two but the england batsmen are outclassed and just appear completely clueless, which imo is entirely down to the coach. They can bat or they'd all be out for 0, but it's the timing of that batting that the coach should be sorting out, I think we'll bat better in the tests because there's no time restriction but the indian spinners will come into it a lot more so our lack of technique against spin will be exposed again.... going to be a long winter, my bet is moores will be out by the end of the windies tour as i can see us losing that too unless the players sort themselves out sharpish as moores isn't going to.
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Old 27-Nov-2008, 00:06   #22
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Hate to make England look even more incompetent but cricinfo just highlighted this: "Pietersen's seventh ODI ton was the first by an England captain outside of London and only the third by an England batsman in the last 30 one-dayers."

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Old 27-Nov-2008, 09:03   #23
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I bet the other 2 were his too, at least one of them was i know that.

I'm guessing by now the England team would have pulled out of the tour, i'm sure this has nothing at all to do with the fact they're losing and i can understand changing the venue from mumbai for the time being but pulling out altogether i personally find cowardly and bowing down to terrorists, not really much of a show of support for the indian nation either.

I hope none of your family or friends were anywhere near the trouble in Mumbai Khaz.
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Old 27-Nov-2008, 10:48   #24
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Echo that Bug. Khaz India's batsman took all the credit I had to give. I have none left

Sharma getting his hair cut was a good step tho

Last 2 ODI's cancelled as it stands. Crystalised 5-0 defeat there. "In discussion" over whether to play the 2 test matches last time I read the BBC pages. I hope they stick around and play them.

Also looks like the much hyped IPL has been cancelled too That'll teach them for not letting Kent in the fuckers!!
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Old 09-Dec-2008, 13:29   #25
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...nd/7772785.stm

Credit where it's due - that is a fantastic gesture from England. They get paid very little relatively speaking and it is admirable of them to donate half of their fee.

I am probably a little unfair in that I firmly believe that squads are morally obliged to tour in situations like this (not Zimbabwe where I firmly believe we should never have gone) so I am also pleased we have gone back to play, allbeit with 3020432 commando's on the boundary. Shame on Australia for being spineless when faced with similar issues in the past.

India should and almost certainly will win, even for England the preparation we've had takes some beating Stranger things have happened though when teams pull together through adversity. My main hope is that we can bat well enough to force a draw in one of the games. I hold little hope that we can take 20 wickets unless Monty spins his little turban off!!
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Old 10-Dec-2008, 08:52   #26
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India's preparation has been non-existant too but at least they're used to the conditions, the only small crumb of hope is that we at least played the one dayers first this time so have had some experience. To be honest though, cricket is still cricket so i don't think preparation should ever be as big a deal as it's made out to be, hit the red thing into the stands, bowl the red thing into the sticks, it's not rocket science

I think i'll be impressed if England can force a draw in one of the games, or at the very least make India bat twice, i'd be surprised if it's anything other than two innings defeats though considering how poor our batsmen are at the moment and our toothless bowling.

English cricket seems to be rapidly going backwards for some reason, i blame it partially on peter moores being a shit coach but there's more to it than just that, looking at the county averages the english players are no where near the foreign players, even the young foreigners are better than our players, there's no real pressure on places in the team.

I'm a big fan of Ian Bell and think he has the natural talent to be as good as tendulkar (no really, when he's playing well, watch him closely, it's fantastic) but there's something stopping him moving on beyond the regular 30-70's, it's the coaching staff's job to have sorted this and they haven't but he keeps his place regardless, same as collingwood, cook and all the others performing well below their ability. Only KP performs to his ability, just think how much more he'd score if he didn't have to have all the pressure of being the only batsman in the entire side.

The bowling isn't really helped by the injuries and loss of form to key players but there should be more stocks in the cupboard, we have enough people playing cricket in this country that there should be some fast bowlers out there who can bowl fast and still bowl at the stumps, rather than 4th slip.

Monty is a good spinner but not a great spinner, he's average, better than giles but still not enough to win matches consistently and people are getting better at playing him whilst his bowling has remained the same, he needs to get more variation, imo he needs to play a lot more county cricket or sub-continent cricket in our off season or something, the ECB should be doing more to help him find variation, i know things fell through this winter but i don't really see why, the ECB has more than enough money from it's sky deal now that if they're going to take cricket away from us normal folk they could at least pour it into making the team better.
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Old 10-Dec-2008, 13:53   #27
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Prior to 'Keep, and Swann in as a second spinner alongside Monty.
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Old 10-Dec-2008, 17:59   #28
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Both the obvious and consistent choices really. Shah must be on the verge of doing a "Falling Down" though - yet again circumstances contrive to keep him out of the test side when he has been excellent all summer and particularly in the ODI's.
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Old 11-Dec-2008, 08:45   #29
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not a bad start so far, good to see them batting like test batsmen rather than 20/20 as has been the case recently.

I agree CB, i think bell and colly should be playing for their place in this test, shah should be in for whoever fails (although the fact cook threw it away for no reason puts him top of my list at the moment, he's a very annoying player!), it's not that i think either of them deserve to be dropped more that shah is doing better than them in the other forms of the game so deserves a shot, and it might shake up some of the complacency in the side, but tbh i can't see them changing the side for these tests unless someone has a complete and utter mare.

I think if we can get to 400 we'd have done well (considering), but i'm sure a collapse is on the cards at some point this afternoon.
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Old 11-Dec-2008, 10:49   #30
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You called it Bug

Bell out for 17 and KP inexplicably out for 4 trying to hook a sodding bouncer. All that patience by Strauss (good ton) undone by the middle order as usual.

For me Shah has got to bat ahead of Collingwood at 5. Even Vaughan may be a better bet at 3 if he ever learns how to bat again.

Really annoyed we've let such a good start slip
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