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Old 05-Aug-2015, 13:20   #1
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Corbyn-Mania

I don't about anyone else, but I'm getting bored of this now, and has gone full meta. I mean look, there's even a '21 signs Corbyn-Mania has got out of hand' on Buzzfeed ffs. Just make him Labour leader already.
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Old 05-Aug-2015, 13:28   #2
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If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.
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Old 05-Aug-2015, 13:34   #3
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If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.
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Old 05-Aug-2015, 13:47   #4
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Corbynmania VI - Return of the trots

If Labour really don't want to return to power until 2025 at the earliest, then they are going the right way about it. That's assuming they don't implode in the interim

The irony is that I don't want Labour in ever, but I don't want a one party state in England either.
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Old 05-Aug-2015, 14:30   #5
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There's quite a lot of evidence that a substantively more left wing party would be popular with voters (for one trying to be Tory-lite rather than anti ideological-austerity fucked Labour in the last election proper) but I do like the neoliberal consensus on Corbyn that their world view is the right one and shared by everyone. Hubris and all that. Sooner we're rid of Ham face and his muppet of a Chancellor the better.
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Old 05-Aug-2015, 15:45   #6
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Weren't labour already fucked for the next GE in the last GE?. Delusional of them to think otherwise whomever is at the helm imo.
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Old 05-Aug-2015, 23:03   #7
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There's quite a lot of evidence that a substantively more left wing party would be popular with voters (for one trying to be Tory-lite rather than anti ideological-austerity fucked Labour in the last election proper) but I do like the neoliberal consensus on Corbyn that their world view is the right one and shared by everyone. Hubris and all that. Sooner we're rid of Ham face and his muppet of a Chancellor the better.
The people who voted for the Tories and UKIP didn't do it because they felt Labour weren't left enough. I'm not sure a near-religious view that anyone who doesn't share their world view is an idiot is unique to the right. You're right about the hubris though, it seems too good to be true...
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 01:33   #8
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If the Tories keep up ideological austerity while reducing gdp per capita, increasing the country's debt, wage inequality and child poverty I'd wager decent money that a mildly competent left wing alternative would win next time around.

This is admittedly anecdotal but all ukip voters I've met that have admitted to it have been very much single issue voters (in one case green belt land protection... Odd man) and are ex Labour as well as ex Tories.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 01:47   #9
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Yvette Cooper for me. She has much nicer legs than Corbyn.

Probably.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 06:12   #10
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Right, but the ex-Labour folk voting for UKIP haven't rejected Labour because they're not left wing enough. If Labour's strategy for 2020 is to hope that the voting public finally turns against austerity, when actually people donMt give nearly as much of a shit as Twitter would have you believe, they'll repeat the mistakes of the 2015.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 09:59   #11
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Would prefer Andy Burnham myself, but would have no problem supporting Jeremy Corbyn. He did a talk in the Adelphi Hotel a few days ago and you couldn't get in the room it was that packed, they had to put speakers outside for the people wanting to hear him. Believe he did very well.

He has already come out and said he would do a deal with the SNP, and this government only got 24.3% of the vote anyway, so I wouldn't write him off. Cameron and Osborne are going to do a lot more things that will piss people off, so if he is anti austerity he could gain quite a few votes.

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Old 06-Aug-2015, 10:28   #12
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That's the same refrain from 2010, those horrible Tories and their awful austerity. The NHS crisis never materialised in a way that resonated, people don't give a shit about Atos interviews, and they actually quite like things like restricting child benefits to third children or having folks with an extra bedroom getting less from the state.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 10:30   #13
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Well at least 24.3% of people do anyway.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 10:41   #14
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So the despite the apocolyptic predictions, the ~33% that didn't vote weren't sufficiently bothered to turnout? Maybe Corbyn gets people interested enough to vote by presenting himself as a credible and authentic politician, but other than having a lot of very excited and vocal folks on Twitter, I doubt it.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 10:52   #15
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Dissapointed was expecting

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Old 06-Aug-2015, 11:20   #16
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So the despite the apocolyptic predictions, the ~33% that didn't vote weren't sufficiently bothered to turnout? Maybe Corbyn gets people interested enough to vote by presenting himself as a credible and authentic politician, but other than having a lot of very excited and vocal folks on Twitter, I doubt it.
True to say the apocalypse hasn't happened. Also true to say that Police are already seeing a retention drop due to having to extend probationary roles out from two years to five years to make up for the intake freeze. Also true to say urban key workers are seeing their unchanged salaries fall further behind the cost of living month on month. Definitely true to say another property crash looms as mortgage costs look set to finally catch up with the lenders (in)ability to raise credit from diverse derivatives without having to worry about irritations like double figure core capital ratios.

Obviously all this is a little dull to properly resonate as you say. But it shouldn't stop anyone informed to a slightly higher standard than the archetypal twitter user from supporting an alternative.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 12:46   #17
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How does increasing the probationary term make up for a lower intake? Lower intake against high requirement needs usually results in fast tracking.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 12:51   #18
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It doesn't make up for it, the probationary term hasn't increased - I didn't state that well. The issue is that there's no new intake due now to replace probationers in the traditional split shift dogshit roles like response, misper, drink shift etc. Where probationers were previously due to tolerate two years of that before ending probation and potentially moving onto something else, they're now stuck there working nights over 4/5 weekends for up to half a decade with no end in sight.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 14:22   #19
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Anyone with a casual interest in politics should recognise that Corbyn is unelectable. Not necessarily for ideological reasons but his base is too narrow. He will be horribly mis-characterised in an election campaign and will ceratinly lose the centre. My sense is that the public simply aren't there - rather than there being an overwhelming case of apathaty and under-representation. Either way, he doesn't strike me as the character to win it even if it were there to be had.

The Blair bots (Cooper and Burnham) do not offer much more than vacuity but you've got to reach the conclusion they've better odds in an election. Chuka was frankly their only realistic opportunity to turn it round in the next 4-years. He has the charisma and (for lack of a better word) background to offer something a bit new and inspirational.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 14:32   #20
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I still wonder why Chuka dropped out, surely being buttered (allegedly) on the other side is somewhat irrelevant these days ? although if the alleged rumours of a profile on one of the apps is true, that would have been harder to get over

I think all the choices are somewhat doomed though, Burnham is probably the least poisonous though. Labour must be kicking themselves over David Milliband though
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 14:38   #21
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Anyone with a casual interest in politics should recognise that Corbyn is unelectable. Not necessarily for ideological reasons but his base is too narrow. He will be horribly mis-characterised in an election campaign and will ceratinly lose the centre. My sense is that the public simply aren't there - rather than there being an overwhelming case of apathaty and under-representation. Either way, he doesn't strike me as the character to win it even if it were there to be had.

The Blair bots (Cooper and Burnham) do not offer much more than vacuity but you've got to reach the conclusion they've better odds in an election. Chuka was frankly their only realistic opportunity to turn it round in the next 4-years. He has the charisma and (for lack of a better word) background to offer something a bit new and inspirational.
Unelectable =/= Unsupportable. Consider him an internal protest vote for many labour members.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 14:47   #22
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You're preaching to the choir. I voted Lib Dem.

I can't remember who said it. Probably Blair. It's the sort of thing he would say but the first duty of a politician is to be elected and win a mandate to govern. That's what sets apart your run-of-the-mill MP who gets up says a few things and has no great impact with a leader who can win three elections on the trot. He's a despicable man but his assessment is bang on it there.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 14:53   #23
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Sure and now I'll basically be telling you how to suck eggs - but obviously it's not that simple for the left-leaning rank and file. For thirty years they've watched Labour have moved to the centre and they can point to the last GE as the net result. I honestly think there's a mindset there that wants to see Labour restructure to the left first, and worry about the GE second. Especially given that a coalition is their only tenable option in the next one anyway.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 14:59   #24
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That presupposes that the election can even be won there. How any restructuring can take place without the first, and only objective, of winning the next general election would seem to be predestined to fail. It's an emotional reaction driven by a desire to control and influence the party rather than a steely-eyed period of reflection - which is what they should be doing having just been humiliated and out-outmaneuvered in May by the right and the left.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 15:04   #25
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You're preaching to the choir. I voted Lib Dem.

I can't remember who said it. Probably Blair. It's the sort of thing he would say but the first duty of a politician is to be elected and win a mandate to govern. That's what sets apart your run-of-the-mill MP who gets up says a few things and has no great impact with a leader who can win three elections on the trot. He's a despicable man but his assessment is bang on it there.
One of the major flaws with democracy. Why can't we have benevolent dictatorships? As an aside and only really relevant to the above point about politicians being meant to win elections: hero.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 15:12   #26
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That presupposes that the election can even be won there. How any restructuring can take place without the first, and only objective, of winning the next general election would seem to be predestined to fail. It's an emotional reaction driven by a desire to control and influence the party rather than a steely-eyed period of reflection - which is what they should be doing having just been humiliated and out-outmaneuvered in May by the right and the left.
"They" doesn't exist as a single entity though does it. Never has. It's at least two groups in schism so you're not going to get progress until one has asserted itself.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 15:33   #27
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It's a pithy observation, but the last Labour leader to win an election other than Blair was Wilson in 1974 - 31 years ago. Callaghan, Foot, Kinnock and Miliband all tried and failed to win from the left. Point taken on the protest vote, but as Beef says what's the point of you're enshrining a Tory majority for another decade?
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 15:35   #28
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I don't see it but then I haven't been carrying a labour card for 40 years. I guess that might give you a different perspective.
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 15:39   #29
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Yep, I'm clearly not his target market!
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Old 06-Aug-2015, 15:55   #30
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leady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond reputeleady has a reputation beyond repute
ah but as a youngish AB you probably should be (if I've got that code wrong this will be silly)
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