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Old 14-Feb-2018, 18:25   #241
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I think itíll happen this time (famous last words), but hard to imagine Brady has much to do with it in the space of a couple of months.
I stand corrected... Next one will be final though.
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 18:43   #242
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Until the DUP get rid of Foster, or she's actually prosecuted for that dodgy dealing that led to McGuinness pulling SF out, I can't see it ever being settled.
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 18:53   #243
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It’s got nothing to do with Foster at it’s heart. I suspect she was more than happy to roll on an Irish Language Act but can’t bring the party of nutters with her.
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Old 18-Feb-2018, 21:11   #244
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Our government are so fucking negative, all a shower of cunts!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018..._AqN1H2wqvhWY&
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Old 18-Feb-2018, 21:44   #245
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Our approach to medications like that in this country is so utterly backwards it's a disgrace.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 10:43   #246
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Unless you work for Big Pharma in which case it's perfect. Our political system's a bit shit.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:02   #247
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Like big pharma won't make money selling clinical grade thc products.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:05   #248
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I think it's fairly safe to assume they have products ready to roll.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:07   #249
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If they won't give a young kid cannabis, when it would arguably give him something approaching quality of life, which he currently doesn't have, how come they give methadone to people just to alleviate withdrawal (which I'm assuming is why it's given)?

I probably don't know enough about methadone and its use to comment, which is why I'm asking the question.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:12   #250
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If they had products ready I suspect they’d be selling them in geographies where it is legal (like NL), maybe they do already?

The one thing I’d say is that I find it hard to form much of a view on what policy should be based on what appears like a pretty one-sided series of articles based on a single annecdotal case. Has some in government / NICE or whatever made the counter argument?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:18   #251
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From t'mrs: Methadone is a heroin substitute (but users also get addicted to it and sell it) and is only given to adults, crucially. Naloxone is the best heroin substitute as it blocks the receptors and they don't get anything from it, and thus don't replace heroin addiction with methadone addiction.

The main argument (she suspects) is that he's a child, and there's prolly sensitivity about giving him a controlled substance. There are other, legal, forms of pain relief that have been through trials yadda yadda. This doesn't make it right, but those are the sort of arguments you will get.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:19   #252
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If your interested, watch this from about 11:42.

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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:35   #253
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From t'mrs: Methadone is a heroin substitute (but users also get addicted to it and sell it) and is only given to adults, crucially. Naloxone is the best heroin substitute as it blocks the receptors and they don't get anything from it, and thus don't replace heroin addiction with methadone addiction.

The main argument (she suspects) is that he's a child, and there's prolly sensitivity about giving him a controlled substance. There are other, legal, forms of pain relief that have been through trials yadda yadda. This doesn't make it right, but those are the sort of arguments you will get.
The blockers like Naloxone can encourage overdose though, so there is a downside. Methadone is horrible.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:36   #254
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They give kids morphine and other opioids, ketamine etc so I don't see that as an argument.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:37   #255
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But only in emergencies, though?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:41   #256
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Yes, but even then hospitals only provide those to kids in extreme cases, the side effects of opioids are pretty nasty and hard for kids to handle.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:46   #257
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Noone informed is going to disagree about potential ill-effects. But in the case du jour we're apparently talking about increased risk of future dependency vs very certain fatal seizures tomorrow. Not much of a choice. And it's hardly as if side-effects halt the sale of anything else. We don't worry about trigger thumb, lockjaw and nausea when we administer chemotherapy to fight cancer.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 11:58   #258
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Oh for the record I’m all for him having the drug, I can’t imagine his quality of life the poor guy.

It is largely a political decision and the constant worry of the establishment (from both left and right spectrums) about legalising certain substances. Alcohol, for example, if discovered tomorrow wouldn’t be approved for public consumption.

I do get where they are coming from and the moral implications of allowing a kid to willingly become dependent on THC for the rest of his life, however there needs to be a proper exceptions process, not the broken, one size fits all blanket system we have now.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 12:21   #259
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Is there any real research into THC as an actual medicine or is it like I suspect a Flash Gordon solution "you won't forget, you just won't mind remembering", i.e. just being mildly stoned?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 12:25   #260
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Shit fucking tons, current and historical. And your suspicions don't hand out anywhere near enough credit.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 12:28   #261
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There's no need to legalise weed to give a child a drug with small amounts of THC in it.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 14:01   #262
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I'm specifically talking the use of THC in medicines rather than the US version of the debate.

Also studies that don't rely on patient reporting and something more concrete. I would search, but I suspect I'll hit the web filters I'm cynical, because well I'm generally cynical, but also because if such a study existed I assume it would have been hard to avoid in the debate.

edit: as an aside I'm actually not necessarily against the idea of horribly disabled kid or adult being allowed to be stoned all the time, its just the way the debate is framed
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 14:43   #263
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The amount of countries that are legalising the use of medical marijuana is huge, and once again, we are getting left behind. And it's not about being stoned. The way they cross breed the plants, some are high in CBD low THC, or the other way around, and both have different affects on different illnesses.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:05   #264
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I'm not sold on the "getting left behind" argument, there is after all no barrier to catching up whenever. I just don't think its unreasonable to want physical evidence of a proven medicinal effect and I suspect if one existed, that it would be shouted from the rooftops.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:10   #265
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The amount of countries that are legalising the use of medical marijuana is huge, and once again, we are getting left behind. And it's not about being stoned. The way they cross breed the plants, some are high in CBD low THC, or the other way around, and both have different affects on different illnesses.
Thatís really not true, thereís a small pocket of counties and selected states in the US where it is legal... certainly not a huge list.

Even those where it is legal it is carefully controlled. Uruguay is the only country in the world afaik where it is totally legal.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:24   #266
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The list of countries where medical pot is legal is larger than you suggest IMO.. Did you know Germany was on that list ?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:25   #267
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What has this even got to do with the US in isolation other than the readily available profile of their legalisation?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:25   #268
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Thatís really not true, thereís a small pocket of counties and selected states in the US where it is legal... certainly not a huge list.

Even those where it is legal it is carefully controlled. Uruguay is the only country in the world afaik where it is totally legal.
There are more and more countries announcing they are making mmj legal, Canada, Australia and Norway are recent advocates.

https://mmjrecs.com/countries-allow-...marijuana-use/
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:33   #269
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I’m talking about complete legality - not just available on medical licence.

As I’ve said, I’m a big advocate for it, weed is a nothing drug compared to other substances available and if this was being discussed 150 odd years ago I’m sure it would made available.

CS - it’s one thing to advocate for it, it’s another thing altogether to put a piece of legislation to allow it, especially in some countries where it is thought of so negatively including the UK or Ireland. It will take a brave government to put forward that proposition and you sure as shit won’t get it from the current one.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:36   #270
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Stepper, I was trying to get the point back to the poor kid with epilepsy not being able to get his meds.
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