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Old 16-Jan-2018, 11:41   #91
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Yeah but has to gall paying said nobody £75k in benefits.
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 11:48   #92
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Not as galling as paying £1Bil to the DUP to prop up this bunch
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 11:53   #93
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It wasn’t paid to the DUP. It was paid to taxpayers, by taxpayers.
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 13:22   #94
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I'm not sure taxpayers had much say in the matter. I don't remember being asked for my permission
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 13:49   #95
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Welcome to parliamentary democracy!
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 14:00   #96
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I'm not sure taxpayers had much say in the matter. I don't remember being asked for my permission
Yes you were asked if you wanted Strong and Stable and you obviously said no. That'll teach you.
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 14:00   #97
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you probably don't want to delve into the cost of Northern Ireland generally
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 14:02   #98
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Oh please do.
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 14:05   #99
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its a very expensive province, the end
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Old 16-Jan-2018, 15:03   #100
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Nailed that diplomacy
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Old 18-Jan-2018, 12:25   #101
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I wonder why?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...eaks-tradition
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Old 18-Jan-2018, 12:38   #102
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If true, good for her.
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Old 18-Jan-2018, 23:58   #103
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I'd rather have nobody than Clegg. At least nobody can't lie to you and sell his soul for a glimpse of power.
If you can't accept politics as deal making and compromise no one can help you. People who are unable to look back on the Coalition government and recognise that having the Libs pulling on the Tory's tail actually helped, those people are fucking deluded.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 00:15   #104
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Don't often find myself agreeing with shocked but yes, one of the reasons that the left tend to be screwed in modern political debate is that they can't compromise to work together politically with the centre. You can argue that Clegg made the wrong compromises but he had to compromise on something and he decided to compromise on students in order to attempt real political reform. He failed at that but it was a laudable aim imo.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 00:42   #105
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Agree very much with your point. I did hear two things on tuition fees:
- The Tories claim Clegg volunteered an about-turn on tuition fees unprompted by the Tories, i.e. they didn't drag it out of him
- Clegg claimed that one of his biggest regrets is not waiting for the universities to plead publicly for more money and tuition fees to fund it, but instead taking that on his own shoulders
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 09:00   #106
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Don't often find myself agreeing with shocked but yes, one of the reasons that the left tend to be screwed in modern political debate is that they can't compromise to work together politically with the centre. You can argue that Clegg made the wrong compromises but he had to compromise on something and he decided to compromise on students in order to attempt real political reform. He failed at that but it was a laudable aim imo.
Compromise is fine, but Clegg could have gone with a Labour coalition. He chose Conservative and enabled all that has happened since.

I personally think that the botched referendum on changing the voting system is a far worse betrayal than their university fee change.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 10:01   #107
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No, no he just couldn't Lung.

The Tories had the most seats and whilst they didn't have enough for an outright majority it would of been a political disgrace for the country had he sided with Labour.

The botched referendum isn't his fault either, the country voted against it, I cant stand the fact that the government gave the public a vote on the EU.. thats a far worse betrayal of the public than Alternative Vote or Uni fees.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 10:05   #108
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That and they needed another 10 seats.

An EU referendum was probably inevitable at some point.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 10:39   #109
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That's perhaps a little generous. Can anyone really say they understood or had a clear picture of the potential implications of the EU referendum? Call it elitist but I rather think it was a severe abdication of responsibility by Cameron's government.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 10:46   #110
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I think those are two different but related questions. Was an EU referendum inevitable? In my view, probably, given the extent of division in the country on such a fundamental issue. Was a referendum campaign asking voters to choose between “the status quo” and “whatever hairbrained elysium each idiot voter had dreamt up in their heads” a good idea? Almost certainly not.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 11:09   #111
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The botched referendum isn't his fault either
Of course it was. Nobody wanted AV, everybody wanted PR. Yet the referendum was about AV, and then the Lib Dems didn't even back it!

The Tories having the most votes in 2010 meant nothing, other than because Clegg said it did. He could have formed a Labour/SNP coalition and got a majority comfortably, but he took it upon himself to back the Tories.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 11:17   #112
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As Beef just said, and I agree. I see all referendums apart from those 'Election' ones as an abdication of responsibility by Government.

It's simply impossible for the general public to be 'fully' informed on a topic as complex as membership of the European Union or how to reform voting rules in elections or most topics in reality. You end up with people voting on hyperbole, opinion and friendship rather than hard facts.

Pisses me off it does.

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Of course it was. Nobody wanted AV, everybody wanted PR. Yet the referendum was about AV, and then the Lib Dems didn't even back it!

The Tories having the most votes in 2010 meant nothing, other than because Clegg said it did. He could have formed a Labour/SNP coalition and got a majority comfortably, but he took it upon himself to back the Tories.
What a rubbish statement, "Everybody wanted PR". I'll refer you to my previous point about hyperbole and opinion. The rest of your entire post is emotion-led nonsense.

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Old 19-Jan-2018, 11:18   #113
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I absolutely agree that referendums are bullshit and shouldn't be used in any binding way.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 11:23   #114
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I'm calling it, dictatorships are the best way to lead a country. Give the royal family all the power again.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 11:33   #115
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The Tories having the most votes in 2010 meant nothing, other than because Clegg said it did. He could have formed a Labour/SNP coalition and got a majority comfortably, but he took it upon himself to back the Tories.
The slight shame is that we didn’t get to see Labour supporters reaction to small parts of the UK receiving large sums of public money to support a political coalition that aligns with their preferences. I’m sure they’d have been outraged though.
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Old 19-Jan-2018, 13:08   #116
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I think those are two different but related questions. Was an EU referendum inevitable? In my view, probably, given the extent of division in the country on such a fundamental issue. Was a referendum campaign asking voters to choose between “the status quo” and “whatever hairbrained elysium each idiot voter had dreamt up in their heads” a good idea? Almost certainly not.
Fundamentally agree with this.
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Old 21-Jan-2018, 15:39   #117
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-show-21012018

Good interview with Macron on the Andrew Marr show. It's important to remember that whatever their stripe, there is still such a thing as a classical politician...
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Old 21-Jan-2018, 15:51   #118
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He’s very, very impressive.
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Old 21-Jan-2018, 20:52   #119
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Yeh, i heard about that interview, want to catch it.
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Old 22-Jan-2018, 19:32   #120
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42770361

Big swamp, cunt.
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