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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:38   #271
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Originally Posted by stepper View Post
Iím talking about complete legality - not just available on medical licence.

As Iíve said, Iím a big advocate for it, weed is a nothing drug compared to other substances available and if this was being discussed 150 odd years ago Iím sure it would made available.

CS - itís one thing to advocate for it, itís another thing altogether to put a piece of legislation to allow it, especially in some countries where it is thought of so negatively including the UK or Ireland. It will take a brave government to put forward that proposition and you sure as shit wonít get it from the current one.
Sorry goose, I was talking about for medical use, not complete legalization, which I also fully advocate.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:40   #272
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which comes back to the medical evidence argument, and no the parents anecdote doesn't count. There needs to be actual proof that its better than real epilepsy medication.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:47   #273
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Cannabis really isn't a nothing drug.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:55   #274
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Leady, you mean like a bunch of doctors observing the reaction of a kid with severe epilepsy for whom conventional medicine has failed ?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:58   #275
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But that's not how licensing meds works, though.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 15:59   #276
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no I mean a proper study, across a real sample size that shows a physical effect significantly above the baseline of a placebo, then coupled with a comparison for efficacy vs existing treatments, both on an outcome and cost basis.

Anyone doing "medicine" not adhering to that standard should be questioned to the high heavens except in "hail mary" life or death cases and even those are performed under strict trial criterion.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:11   #277
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Bit hard to get a real sample size when he's one of only 9 boys in the world known to have the condition. The meds he's currently on are going to fuck him up, so where's the harm?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:12   #278
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Originally Posted by leady View Post
no I mean a proper study, across a real sample size that shows a physical effect significantly above the baseline of a placebo, then coupled with a comparison for efficacy vs existing treatments, both on an outcome and cost basis.

Anyone doing "medicine" not adhering to that standard should be questioned to the high heavens except in "hail mary" life or death cases and even those are performed under strict trial criterion.
They have done this with the likes of Fentanyl, and a lot a good that's done.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:13   #279
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Have some research http://www.liebertpub.com/overview/c...-research/633/. That's just one journal, there will be more in other places.

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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:13   #280
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Oh OK, so let's just leave the little shit to suffer and withhold the substance that grows naturally fucking everywhere while we collect together some more data for you...

https://www.epilepsy.com/learn/treat...a-and-epilepsy

Or our piss poor excuse for a government could license the substance for this kid under strict guidelines and observation.. And you tossers could put down your Daily Mails for a second and look for something pragmatic.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:19   #281
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Then what's the point in having a licensing system for any medication?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:22   #282
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To regulate widespread use outside of direct observation. But surely you know that.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:24   #283
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From its first recorded uses in China through to the early 20th century, cannabis has had a place in the pharmacopoeia. Queen Victoria’s personal physician, Russel Reynolds, opined in the Lancet in 1890, “Indian hemp, when pure and administered carefully, is one of the most valuable medicines we possess.”1 This opinion was based on current best evidence: the careful and documented observation of its effects in medical conditions.

In a similar vein, calls have been made to reconsider the role of cannabis in today’s society. Two well informed British politicians recently told The BMJ, “We have heard striking testimonies from patients… that cannabis has ‘given them their life back.’”2 Added to this, the international position on cannabis as a potential medication has changed, with international agencies and many governments relaxing a prohibitionist stance.
Not quite sure I want to spend $30 to read the rest based on that opening blurb...


Pointing out what should be obvious is that clearly no one knows what the long term effects of a kid taking THC will be from whether the current perceptions are little more than placebo observations from the kid and parents or even if it causes greater longer term damage than existing treatment. Its quack doctoring

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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:25   #284
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Can I just remind you where this kid is now without the THC ?

Quote:
Alfie Dingley has a form of childhood epilepsy (PCDH19) which triggers multiple serious seizures. Only nine boys have been diagnosed world wide and at one point he had 3,000 seizures and 48 hospital visits in a year.

Alfie's grandmother has described the condition as ďa death sentenceĒ as the amount of steroids currently needed to treat it can eventually lead to psychosis, organ failure and death.
It's nice of you to defend his current quality of life so strongly.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:30   #285
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Originally Posted by leady View Post
Not quite sure I want to spend $30 to read the rest based on that opening blurb...


Pointing out what should be obvious is that clearly no one knows what the long term effects of a kid taking THC will be from whether the current perceptions are little more than placebo observations from the kid and parents or even if it causes greater longer term damage than existing treatment. Its quack doctoring
But doctors routinely hand out SSRI's to people for far less afflictions and everyone's comfortable with the long term affects of those. Oh wait....

https://www.newscientist.com/article...alth-disaster/

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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:32   #286
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You have no evidence that its even the THC without a real scientific study. Could be home environment if they are traveling to Holland to get it for example

Its not even unusual for kids to "get better" from any change of treatment because of placebo and other effects. Also the parents are hardly neutral observers in the debate, they want a magic bullet, any magic bullet (I can hardly blame them) and so will jump on any life raft and blind themselves to reality.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:32   #287
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Not quite sure I want to spend $30 to read the rest based on that opening blurb...
Why follow the numerous links at the bottom to the actual research when you can dismiss it all based on some intro blurb?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:33   #288
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But doctors routinely hand out SSRI's to people for far less afflictions and everyone's comfortable with the long term affects of those. Oh wait....
yeah i'm not really sold on those either, but at least there are some studies...

and giving amphetamines to kids, that's another horror show
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:36   #289
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Originally Posted by Lungboy View Post
Why follow the numerous links at the bottom to the actual research when you can dismiss it all based on some intro blurb?
Because call me a dismissive git, but if research paper doesn't at least state

"we were testing X for result Y. We used a sample size of Z and our findings were Qberts" as a blurb, it looks like junk.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:45   #290
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yeah i'm not really sold on those either, but at least there are some studies...

and giving amphetamines to kids, that's another horror show
There are countless examples to choose from...

What irritates me is politicians or government officials saying that there is no evidence of cannabis having beneficial properties, that's just a lie. There is plenty of evidence. Despite governments around the world making it hard for study to occur due to the ongoing legal issues. The last thing these people want is to be proved wrong.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:46   #291
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Because call me a dismissive git, but if research paper doesn't at least state

"we were testing X for result Y. We used a sample size of Z and our findings were Qberts" as a blurb, it looks like junk.


So ask for information, get it, ignore it. Claim information is still nebulous and assumptive. gj.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:57   #292
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Admittedly everything I've ever read says there is a need for more studies. So we should all be screaming out for more money for studies to either confirm or deny the claims.

In the case of this kid, let him have the gear, just make sure there's come scientific observation, what harm can it do ?

A study on THC and CBD effects on autoimmune disease (e.g. MS, IBD) would also be well worth it. It would do zero harm as this country is awash with weed anyway...

Last edited by Blunteh; 19-Feb-2018 at 17:01. Reason: "to claims"/"the claims" typo
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 16:57   #293
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Any discussion of medicine that starts with "the Victorians used it", triggers my nonsense detectors. What can I say? If someone buries good science under a pile of turd then I'm not going to see it. On the plus side I do save myself a lot of time by not rooting through piles and piles of turds.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 17:06   #294
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Have a look at 23rd February, not that anything will happen.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/...are_the_bills/
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 20:42   #295
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The trouble is, whenever there is a line to be drawn there's always somebody on the wrong side of it. The kid should have it, so why shouldn't cunning?
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 20:46   #296
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The trouble is, whenever there is a line to be drawn there's always somebody on the wrong side of it. The kid should have it, so why shouldn't cunning?
Funny thing is Zip, I had a meeting with my MP a couple of weeks ago, and I brought this up with him. He said it wasn't something he personally had taken an interest in, but after our conversation, he was going to look in to it further.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 23:06   #297
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Admittedly everything I've ever read says there is a need for more studies. So we should all be screaming out for more money for studies to either confirm or deny the claims.

In the case of this kid, let him have the gear, just make sure there's come scientific observation, what harm can it do ?

A study on THC and CBD effects on autoimmune disease (e.g. MS, IBD) would also be well worth it. It would do zero harm as this country is awash with weed anyway...
I may be misremembering, but I have a very vague recollection of David Nutt saying that it is illegal to possess illegal substances even for research purposes (or something to that effect). Hence a lack of thorough studies.
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Old 19-Feb-2018, 23:46   #298
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He's had the go ahead to test LSD now, i think.
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Old 20-Feb-2018, 00:08   #299
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I may be misremembering, but I have a very vague recollection of David Nutt saying that it is illegal to possess illegal substances even for research purposes (or something to that effect). Hence a lack of thorough studies.
Home Office can grant a licence to carry out research using illegal substances.
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Old 20-Feb-2018, 06:36   #300
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Home Office can grant a licence to carry out research using illegal substances.
Its been done for over ten years. Sativex is already made in the UK by GW Pharma, they have a massive grow facility in a secret location. Tried to get it a few times myself when I was on a months course at a pain clinic, but it is only prescribed in the UK for MS spasticity, nothing else.
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