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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:25   #91
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One of yours might well be taking a picture of something and find themselves in the same situation however. It's not a seperate issue.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:31   #92
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Jesus H Christ you drama queens, it's not fucking manslaughter. He got pushed over, which is bad, then had a heart attack some time afterwards. Not necessarily related. Pushed over does not = death. You are all distinctly Daily Mail in your raging about this.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:32   #93
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Awww he was like a modern day Lady Di.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:32   #94
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Why does everyone keep just saying he was pushed over, you not see him getting smacked in the legs with the baton or something?
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:33   #95
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Originally Posted by CryBaby View Post
Jesus H Christ you drama queens, it's not fucking manslaughter. He got pushed over, which is bad, then had a heart attack some time afterwards. Not necessarily related. Pushed over does not = death. You are all distinctly Daily Mail in your raging about this.
Is this irony or something? The defense of the policeman's actions is the distinctly Daily Mail part of this thread.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:34   #96
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In fact, I'm on a hiding to nothing here, this was the forum where half the posters thought De Menezes was fair game.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:49   #97
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Jesus H Christ you drama queens, it's not fucking manslaughter. He got pushed over, which is bad, then had a heart attack some time afterwards. Not necessarily related. Pushed over does not = death. You are all distinctly Daily Mail in your raging about this.
The problem is the disease not the symptom. You're the one being simple.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:55   #98
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It's all about the disease.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 15:57   #99
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In fact, I'm on a hiding to nothing here, this was the forum where half the posters thought De Menezes was fair game.
Initially. Then all the info came out and everyone went "cor, blimey, never realised it happened like that" when it was fucking obvious from the start exactly what had happened.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:00   #100
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:01   #101
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Someone hits me + I die = I am convicted of manslaughter?

But I'm dead.

Edit: nm...editing fool.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:03   #102
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wouldn't call knocking him down/hitting him in the legs with a baton manslaughter

if they opened up on him while he was on the floor till he died then yeah manslaughter
hitting him in hte legs then pushing him down really isn't
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:05   #103
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If those actions are found to have resulted in his subsequent death then yes it is.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:08   #104
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Glass skull theory isn't it? Or somesuch name.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:10   #105
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Of course, if Elrond had hit him he'd have been dead before he hit the ground.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:18   #106
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In not sure it was that obvious Jamey. Clearly everyone should have avoided rushing to judgement but in the first 12 hours or so but to say it was obvious that they had made such a catastrophic fuck up is stretching it.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:22   #107
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I disagree... Everything about the case and surrounding coverage stank from the start.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:24   #108
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Not helped one jot by the "eye witness" statements that appeared on Sky and Fox news. There was talk of a bomb.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:28   #109
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Maybe, but it's a difficult argument to have one way or the other with the full benefit of hindsight.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:33   #110
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Making claims about his innocence implies that he did something illegal prior to the event. I would love to know, beyond "walking", what anyone is suggesting that was.
wasn't claiming merely stating, we weren't there, didn't see everything don't know.

what is clear is that this was a case of assault, if the guy had done something previously it should have been addressed at the time by the police. he was not doing anything at the time of attack as the police clearly made no attempt to detain him. the police attacked a man in an unprovoked fashion, they were not dispensing summary street justice as not legal.

whether this directly caused the heart-attack and his death also unknown until evidence or investigations occur to show what happened, if anything, between the shove and his final collapse and whether medical examination shows any links
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:34   #111
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Yes they were and there is nothing wrong with that.

Remember that story from a few months back, when they claimed 70 officers had been injured by protesters? Which later turned out to be sunstoke and insect bites? That's what always pops into my head now when I hear about "police having to deal with violent protest crowds"
Found the video:

http://www.britcit.co.uk/content/arc...rotesters.html

Its well worth a watch if you havent seen it. Not for the argument over the "injuries" sustained by police there, but for their conduct. ("Can I ask you a question regarding this?", answer: "You can ask but it doesnt mean Ill answer") I particularly recommend it to the people who are somehow managing to find some kind of defence for the police officers involved in this controversy.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:41   #112
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Maybe, but it's a difficult argument to have one way or the other with the full benefit of hindsight.
Well trickery provides a full historical record of my thoughts from the beginning. Unless it's been deleted.

Anyway, we're on the cusp of jacking this thread.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 16:42   #113
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The real concern isn't that this guy died because he was hit by the police - it's the systemic issues:

- That the police systematically produces misinformation. Who came up with this rubbish about protesters blocking medical assistance? That the first reaction of the police was to comment (when the facts weren't established), to deflect criticism and to blame the protesters.

- That none of the police felt compelled to act when one of their colleagues, unprovoked and in no immediate danger, attacks a passer by.

Both these issues are common problems in protests - except in this instance someone died and someone else had caught the incident on camera, and felt morally obligated to release it into the public domain.

It is important that the public and the media make an issue out of this, if we want a police force that serves the public and does not abuse their privileges.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 17:04   #114
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/09/g20_vids/

Now there's something I didn't notice - the original video was offered up by an american fund manager. Nice bit of support from across the divide.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 17:15   #115
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Hang on... do you mean to say that not everyone in the vicinity was a "tree hugging stinking hippy?"

How is this possible?

Oh that's right it's not, and more to the point, only a buffoon would say something like that... surely?
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 17:21   #116
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Not passing judgement btw - London Lite is running a story that he was drunk and had to be physically moved from deliberately blocking the path of a police van earlier in the evening.

Besides, he's a Millwall fan ffs!
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 17:24   #117
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Not necessarily related.
Unless very good medical evidence is given stating that he had a heart condition then I cannot see how it is unrelated.
He was very forcefully pushed to the ground and within a very short time of this then had a heart attack.
How many people have died recently in similar incidents involving feral youths / chavs / scum, or whatever you want to call them, old people getting mugged and pushed to the ground who then die a short time later, be it hours days or in some cases months afterwards. The person who did it has then been charged with manslaughter.
The same people trying to defend the copper here or saying he in some way deserved it are the same calling for the heads of the aforementioned scum.
He should be kicked off the force and charged.

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Old 09-Apr-2009, 18:13   #118
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http://www.politics.co.uk/analysis/policing-and-crime/comment-g20-death-shows-systemic-police-faults-$1286489.htm
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 18:40   #119
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Found the video:

http://www.britcit.co.uk/content/arc...rotesters.html

Its well worth a watch if you havent seen it. Not for the argument over the "injuries" sustained by police there, but for their conduct. ("Can I ask you a question regarding this?", answer: "You can ask but it doesnt mean Ill answer") I particularly recommend it to the people who are somehow managing to find some kind of defence for the police officers involved in this controversy.
That video doesn't really show anything in relation to what this thread is about. The confiscating of items are clearly items that are known as those to be used in a threatening way, yes even soap. Plus if anything it shows the protesters acting like goading cunts. If your going to be a cunt in front of a police officer he's going to take action. Lining up with your arms in the air is irrespective to the fact that the police have asked them to move backwards with which they refused.

As for the whole intimidation, its a police tactic and protesters know that more than anyone else. Being that our police arn't allowed to carry live guns they have to use none life threatening ways to deal with every situation. I would imagine if the way the US police force are armed. Protests would never escalate to such high extremes.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 19:45   #120
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What extremes are those exactly? The 20-odd people acting like dicks vandalising a bank while Britain's media gets its full share to sell on to the public who can't get enough exaggerated tales of civil disorder and the breakdown of civil society? What happened in Seattle?
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