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Old 09-Apr-2009, 20:00   #121
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Someone acts like a cunt and gets a slap from the coppers (no, I'm not talking about the "push of death" bloke) and it's the fault of the coppers.

Some cunt smashes a window and it's the fault of the media.

Will it ever be the fault of the cunts themselves or do they get a free-pass because they're members of the "moral majority" ?
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 20:04   #122
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Originally Posted by Orange View Post
What extremes are those exactly? The 20-odd people acting like dicks vandalising a bank while Britain's media gets its full share to sell on to the public who can't get enough exaggerated tales of civil disorder and the breakdown of civil society? What happened in Seattle?
And hi there LA riots.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 20:10   #123
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Originally Posted by Beef~ View Post
http://www.politics.co.uk/analysis/policing-and-crime/comment-g20-death-shows-systemic-police-faults-$1286489.htm
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At best, the people they are policing are treated as cattle. At worst, they are treated as a public disorder event which hasn't happened yet.

They are not, of course. They are British subjects exercising their democratic right to protest. But police behaviour is influenced by the words of their commanders, and the operational basis on which the policing is conducted.
The problem encapsulated for you Niq, by someone who actually might well be asked to comment on channel 4 news.

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Old 09-Apr-2009, 20:14   #124
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Oh for fuck sake TBK, are you now trying to argue against invented statements because your efforts to counter what's actually been said result in such epic fail?
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 20:17   #125
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Quiet please I'm trying to find the bit where anyone blamed a smashed window on the media.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 21:02   #126
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Originally Posted by Beef~ View Post

That the first reaction of the police was to comment (when the facts weren't established), to deflect criticism and to blame the protesters.
It was happening before the protests started. There was plenty of quotes in the press from the Police saying "There will be violence".

Felt to me at the time, that they were justifying actions before the event happened.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 22:13   #127
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Quiet please I'm trying to find the bit where anyone blamed a smashed window on the media.
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What extremes are those exactly? The 20-odd people acting like dicks vandalising a bank while Britain's media gets its full share to sell on to the public who can't get enough exaggerated tales of civil disorder and the breakdown of civil society? What happened in Seattle?
That would be the one, you perpetually stupid cunt.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 22:16   #128
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best just close the thread and nuke the site from space.... only way to be sure...

On the other hand we could admit that, in a democratic society, people have the right to protest, if the police are seen to over react to said protest, they become answerable to the laws of the society... isn't that one of the basic foundations of a democratic society?

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Old 09-Apr-2009, 22:24   #129
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Edit: Somewhat inflammatory.
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 23:11   #130
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That would be the one, you perpetually stupid cunt.
Least I can read you ignorant old bastard. But just in case I'm wrong, please point out to me exactly where the blame for the window was laid anywhere than at the feet of the dickheads in question? Out of charity I'd suggest before you give yourself a hernia doing so you should find the the nearest dictionary and look up "while".
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Old 09-Apr-2009, 23:30   #131
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Now fuck off you perpetually stupid cunt.
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Old 10-Apr-2009, 04:37   #132
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That video doesn't really show anything in relation to what this thread is about. The confiscating of items are clearly items that are known as those to be used in a threatening way, yes even soap. Plus if anything it shows the protesters acting like goading cunts. If your going to be a cunt in front of a police officer he's going to take action. Lining up with your arms in the air is irrespective to the fact that the police have asked them to move backwards with which they refused.

As for the whole intimidation, its a police tactic and protesters know that more than anyone else. Being that our police arn't allowed to carry live guns they have to use none life threatening ways to deal with every situation. I would imagine if the way the US police force are armed. Protests would never escalate to such high extremes.
Well it was primarily a response to Spazwankles post, but as you raise the subject, I think quite a lot of it relates to the issue at hand. It shows the police forces dispropportionate response to what is, essentially, a peaceful protest.

You talk about confiscating items that can be used in a threatening way? Right, lets confiscate peoples money, you can throw coins. Lets confiscate peoples keys, you can stick them in your fist when you throw a punch. Lets confiscate peoples footwear because, as George W Bush found out, they make fairly good projectiles. My point is, where exactly do you draw the line? Confiscating peoples everyday items at, and I say this again with emphasis, a peaceful protest is just abuse of power. Protesters asked for the officer leading the search points name, but were refused it.

As for intimidation, Im sorry but thats a load of bollocks. I went to 2 peaceful protests myself last year and whilst I wouldnt exactly say that the police were on our side, not a single one of them got in our faces and tried to make us move away. I would estimate there were roughly 80-100 protesters each time and about 15 police, so whilst outnumbered, I wouldnt have said they were fearful of us.

You say that the protesters were refusing to move back and I say good on them. There were no clearly marked boundaries set down by the police they just wanted to herd the protesters around like cattle. Move back? Why? Theyre in an empty field. What exactly do the police want them to move away from? The protesters had their arms in the air chanting "This is not a riot" and that somehow gives the police cause to use physical force? Sorry, but I really cant understand your reasoning on this.

The excuse that American police have guns is also bollocks, because if a police officer pulled his gun at a peaceful protest, Id imagine he would be off the force faster than he could reholster it. The same protests I went to last year, were co-ordinated world wide and so we often saw footage of the police at protests in America and the reaction to the protesters was similar to that of the police in the UK, if not, more co-operative.
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Old 10-Apr-2009, 06:55   #133
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I always find these situations regarding Police frustrating. Firstly the Police are critisised for not doing enough, then they are critisised for doing too much they just can't win in the publics eyes. Although if your child goes missing the'll undoutedly be the first people you will call.

Being a copper is a tough job, there is so much pressure to get it right, they are human after all, they joined the job to help others, sometimes their hands are tied and they can't do what needs to be done, other times in moments such as this G20 protest incident the adrenaline is running and they are stressed. The G20 officer appeared in the video to make a bad decision but the Police have to complete sooo much paperwork because of shit like this hitting the fan, he's gonna be called on to justify his actions and rightly so, sure The Met may appear to be with-holding information to the press and why shouldn't they, the press will fuck it all up anyhow and spin it to shit, the Police try to work with the press only to be shat on. Also from a Police moral point of view, its nigh on impossible to get it right every time, surely as with every other employer out there you want their support when the shit hits the fan.

What happened immediately before he was pushed? 10 seconds before, 30 seconds before, 1 minute before. What is a person alledgedly on his way home from his honest job selling papers doing between a line of TSG officers and protesters?

Give our boys in blue a break, surely they get it wrong sometimes but at the end of the day they are ONLY human. If they had more support from the public they could do their job more effectivly.
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Old 10-Apr-2009, 11:59   #134
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Unfortunately we can only speculate what he was doing/saying before that video was taken. He appears to be casually walking away, but as you point out what was he doing there in the first place? The policemens heavy handedness is apparent but their orders maybe to move ANYONE away from the area, if he was not willing to move/moving in the wrong direction police will (assist) you in going in the right direction.
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Old 10-Apr-2009, 13:10   #135
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that's not what's happening in the video though is it numbnuts? ffs
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Old 10-Apr-2009, 15:32   #136
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At the end of the day, the vast majority of people on this thread don't have the slightest clue, or unwilling to get one, about what the police do and why they do what they do in these sort of situations. Not saying that I do, but bloody hell, don't try and technically dissect their actions with little to no context/knowledge.

Granted it might have been excessive, but only in hindsight. If the copper went out the house that morning thinking 'I'm going to find an old guy, hopefully with a heart condition to kill' I doubt he would have so readily presented himself to the media. This sort of stuff happens when you stick a couple of... what thousand?... mong protesters in the same place and expect everything to be like fecking Woodstock.

Maybe if they were let free to run around the city they would have all had a good sign waving and gone home. More likely they would have gone home with a few TVs though, leaving a couple of kids trampled to death.
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Old 10-Apr-2009, 16:13   #137
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At the end of the day, the vast majority of people on this thread don't have the slightest clue, or unwilling to get one, about what the police do and why they do what they do in these sort of situations. Not saying that I do, but bloody hell, don't try and technically dissect their actions with little to no context/knowledge.
No. I'll leave that to you...

Quote:
Granted it might have been excessive, but only in hindsight. If the copper went out the house that morning thinking 'I'm going to find an old guy, hopefully with a heart condition to kill' I doubt he would have so readily presented himself to the media. This sort of stuff happens when you stick a couple of... what thousand?... mong protesters in the same place and expect everything to be like fecking Woodstock.
Maybe if they were let free to run around the city they would have all had a good sign waving and gone home. More likely they would have gone home with a few TVs though, leaving a couple of kids trampled to death.
I think if hindsight tells us anything then it would be that people are (for the most part) capable of valid and peaceful protest and that hitting people with battons for no good reason isn't such a good idea.
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Old 10-Apr-2009, 16:19   #138
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The point is a fair one though, the officer is entitled to a fair trial and shouldn't be subjected to trial by media. That being said, if the CPS decide not to take this forward there'll need to a full disclosure on the reasons why and potentially and some demonstrations of independence.

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Granted it might have been excessive, but only in hindsight. If the copper went out the house that morning thinking 'I'm going to find an old guy, hopefully with a heart condition to kill' I doubt he would have so readily presented himself to the media. This sort of stuff happens when you stick a couple of... what thousand?... mong protesters in the same place and expect everything to be like fecking Woodstock.
I'm just not sure I agree with this though. The video footage shows a bunch of policemen hovering around, looking fairly untroubled and unstressed, followed by their colleague wading in to batter a pretty non-threatening looking bloke with his baton. I'm just don't see what threat the officer could have perceived from the guy that warranted beating him like that. But, as you say, there may be mitigating circumstances (although I can't imagine what those could be that would justify this), so we'll have to wait for an investigation before passing judgement.

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Maybe if they were let free to run around the city they would have all had a good sign waving and gone home. More likely they would have gone home with a few TVs though, leaving a couple of kids trampled to death.
This is a bit of a strawman argument. Asking that the police don't randomly batter people on the street with batons isn't the same as demanding no police presence at all.
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Old 10-Apr-2009, 17:31   #139
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Its a very fine line tho which can easily be crossed. Do too much or too little and you get it in the neck. This one cop lashed out and now the whole operation is under that shadow.

The CPS will have to be more transparent than a really transparent thing thats for you.
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Old 13-Apr-2009, 12:45   #140
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Old 13-Apr-2009, 12:59   #141
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Old 13-Apr-2009, 13:58   #142
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I laughed at that video of the guy getting pushed over.

Woops.
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Old 14-Apr-2009, 13:11   #143
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7997990.stm

IPCC chairman in trouble for claims that the area in which the assault took place is the only ten square meters in London without 4 CCTV cameras in it.
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Old 14-Apr-2009, 18:44   #144
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7998976.stm

more coppers beating people
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Old 14-Apr-2009, 19:57   #145
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Anybody suprised?
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Old 14-Apr-2009, 21:01   #146
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I want to be on the side of the police i really do but episodes like this make me really doubt them. I used to believe that the person had a good chance of having done summit wrong close to what they are accused of. The thing is now they are accused and the evidence or charges never seem to materialize. Case in point:
The arrests the other day
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998270.stm

Now in that article the bit that really makes me shake my head is this

Quote:
Police say they have not found any explosives or identified a clear target for the alleged bomb plot.

However, the BBC understands that images of the popular Arndale and Trafford Centre shopping complexes, Birdcage nightclub and St Ann's Square, all in Manchester, were found during searches.

On Monday evening, army bomb disposal officers were called in to one of the homes being searched in the Wavertree area of Liverpool as a "precaution". They have now been stood down, although the police search continues.
That whole section kinda destroys any belief i may have had that these guys were intent on terrorism. The bit on bold is just scary. Take some photos and u are a crim!
Tbh i feel like giving up with the whole thing at times.
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Old 14-Apr-2009, 21:05   #147
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Is that the one they had to rush in half cocked because that moron Quick showed the whole world his super secret documents?
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Old 14-Apr-2009, 21:06   #148
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I used to believe the police. I got to know a lot of police officers on a personal basis when I was security guarding and they always seemed to do the right thing, but all this bollocks lately has really shaken my faith in them. I find it really hard to believe the polices version of events in any news article where there might be even slightly conflicting stories.
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Old 14-Apr-2009, 21:06   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmineus View Post
Is that the one they had to rush in half cocked because that moron Quick showed the whole world his super secret documents?

Aye thats the one.
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Old 15-Apr-2009, 01:49   #150
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I believe N.W.A. said it best.

On a more serious note, although I'm late to this particular discussion, I can't believe how this has polarised opinion - and I'm sorry to say, I'm suprised at the folk who don't think the police were acting somewhere between 'very far away' and 'very far away indeed' of their remit.
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