trickery.net  

Go Back   trickery.net > General > Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 18-Apr-2011, 19:20   #1
The Big Kahuna
Younger than Ethel
The Big Kahuna's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 17,223
The Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond reputeThe Big Kahuna has a reputation beyond repute
AV Referendum

Can't see another thread anywhere about this, so...

I really don't get it. I've probably missed the subtleties or even got it totally wrong, but here's my perception of the way it works on voting day and the problem I see with it:

I go to vote. On the ballot paper there are (for the sake of simplification) 3 candidates:

Con
Lab
Lib

Now, under AV they are expecting/hoping that I will vote for my first, second and third choice (I realise that it isn't compulsory to list preferences, and that I am still free to just vote for one).

The problem as I see it is, if the majority of voters are like me, there is only one out of the above list that they would ever consider voting for, and would never entertain expressing any form of preference for either of the others. Personally, there are 2 on that list who I wouldn't vote for if you held a gun to my head.

So, what's changed ? The only thing I can see happening is it will be used for tactical voting.

Feel free to point out my considerable errors.
__________________
If a Les Paul falls out of a tree in the forest, and nobody is there to hear it, does it still sound overpriced?
The Big Kahuna is online now  
 Niq-Scott 
Reply With Quote
Old 18-Apr-2011, 20:24   #2
Nomad
i fear no midget
Nomad's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,402
Nomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond reputeNomad has a reputation beyond repute
i thought this thread was going to solve the question of what has been truly been troubling mankind for the last 10yrs now: which antivirus would you get?

i have a preference for comodo, cos when i say it like that it makes me think of sexpanther aftershave, also it doesn't use much system resources, seems to run relatively hassle free except for occasionally not telling me i need to update it post a win update and suddenly negating all internet activity which was a bit of a cnt the first time

as for the politics thing, can't trust any one of them to deliver anything so it's a case of making the best of a bad job unfortunately, i'll only vote for one as per op above
Nomad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 18-Apr-2011, 20:37   #3
Blood God
Destroyer of economies
Blood God's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bruce's Bar and Grill, London
Posts: 7,055
Blood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond repute
I guess the main difference is that if you want to vote for one of the smaller parties, which doesn't get near the required number, your vote isn't completely wasted.

Plus with the bigger constituencies (being decided separately by the MPs regardless) you're likely to get a wider range of votes, meaning that seats are less likely to be ultra safe and therefore reducing the number of places where it's pointless to vote for anyone other than the incumbent party.
Blood God is offline  
 BlitherJet 
Reply With Quote
Old 18-Apr-2011, 21:08   #4
Orange
schtop! this thread is not ready yet
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,690
Orange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond repute
I think the point is that a lot of people do have a preference and end up voting tactically rather than "waste" a vote by, for example, voting Green or LibDem in a LabCon marginal. I doubt it'll pass, which makes the really interesting question how the Coalition will hold up.
Orange is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 18-Apr-2011, 21:16   #5
[n00b]Zippy
Waterborne Trailer-Trash
[n00b]Zippy's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Shropshire Union Canal
Posts: 12,343
[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute[n00b]Zippy has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna View Post
The problem as I see it is, if the majority of voters are like me, there is only one out of the above list that they would ever consider voting for, and would never entertain expressing any form of preference for either of the others. Personally, there are 2 on that list who I wouldn't vote for if you held a gun to my head.
As far as I can tell, if you don't express a second preference then your ballot paper is discarded for ongoing rounds. If no-one gets 50% of the vote, the last placed candidate is eliminated and their second-place votes are apportioned to their second-placed candidate. Not entirely sure how they deal with third-place etc.

Relieved that my vote seems unable to go to someone I wouldn't dream of voting for, but seems massively complicated, nonetheless.
[n00b]Zippy is offline  
Send a message via MSN to [n00b]Zippy
Reply With Quote
Old 18-Apr-2011, 22:35   #6
naib
forum hax
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 468
naib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond repute
Here are a couple of videos that try to explain the two systems:



naib is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 18-Apr-2011, 23:58   #7
Noodles
Internet Sex Pest
Noodles's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,000
Noodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond repute
I think it attempts the resolve the problem of electing a candidate that a majority don't.

In an area
- 31% may like candidate a
- 30% may like candidate b
- 29% may like candidate c
- 10% may like other smaller parties

You might find those who vote for b or c REALLY dislike candidate a. In first the past the post system candidate a would win, even though 59% of the vote would prefer any other major candidate.

I like it as it means that you don't have to vote tactically, just intelligently. The AV fear mongers like to try and show obscure situations that let smaller radical parties win without any of the vote, but it's just nonsensical. At the moment people get caught up in tactical voting and you get situations where the BNP win a seat, so I don't see that as any different. It seems to me that the campaigning against it is just done by those who enjoy a system where they can govern without a popular majority.

Despite this I don't think it's going to happen. There seems to be great deal of crap hitting the streets about AV from a certain publishing company. I've seen leaflets in my local shops and had them delivered through the door. The main argument is that AV is rubbish because only 3 other countries use it. Interesting fact is that none of the political parties use first past the post to decide their own leaders, the tories use single transferable vote and labour and lib dems use AV.

Lots of other facts on it are wrong too, it quotes it as a 250 million cost, but that 250 million actually includes 82 million for the referendum itself, and other 130 million for electronic voting machines for which going to be needed even if the referendum is passed.

Problem is people are too easily taken in by spin without doing their own research. I can see plenty dumb enough to vote against it just based on the "Vote No" campaign.

Last edited by Noodles; 19-Apr-2011 at 00:33. Reason: edit *even - win
Noodles is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 00:09   #8
BBW
Contains flashing images.
BBW's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the woods...
Tournaments Won: 1
Posts: 12,423
BBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond repute
What do you mean "candidate a would even, even though..."?
__________________
"There you go... giving a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck."
BBW is offline  
 RobBBW   Rob BBW 
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 09:59   #9
Blood God
Destroyer of economies
Blood God's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bruce's Bar and Grill, London
Posts: 7,055
Blood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond reputeBlood God has a reputation beyond repute
I like the way that this image sums it up:

Blood God is offline  
 BlitherJet 
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 10:50   #10
SphericaL
Fuck You!
SphericaL's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,188
SphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond repute
AV is the dumbest system proposed yet, its made the other countries who use it into utter farces of 'democracy' every result being hung is not a good idea. ill be surprised if it reachs the required turn out % tbh, coz its certainly a waste of time.
__________________
Fueled By Satan....
SphericaL is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 10:55   #11
Scrobbs
Sunnyvale Supervisor
Scrobbs's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the pipe, five by five.
Posts: 15,672
Scrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond reputeScrobbs has a reputation beyond repute
Interestingly, New Zealand is currently in a referendum to see if the voters wish to move from AV to FPTP.
__________________
http://bit.ly/debatethebill
Scrobbs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 11:07   #12
BBW
Contains flashing images.
BBW's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the woods...
Tournaments Won: 1
Posts: 12,423
BBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond reputeBBW has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood God View Post
I like the way that this image sums it up:

That doesn't make ANY sense at all!
__________________
"There you go... giving a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck."
BBW is offline  
 RobBBW   Rob BBW 
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 11:12   #13
[RaG]Ethel
Alfa Male
[RaG]Ethel's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 13,609
[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute[RaG]Ethel has a reputation beyond repute
yes it does ... even to me (once you realise the 5 years later is what you'd vote without AV)
__________________
roadtrip flickr
[RaG]Ethel is offline  
 IaShDa 
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 11:31   #14
Noodles
Internet Sex Pest
Noodles's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,000
Noodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond repute
Those videos naib posted are pretty good - didn't really understand the spoiler effect until now.
Noodles is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 12:52   #15
Smoo
empty minds post alike
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Somewhere so boring Solitare is the national sport
Posts: 9,125
Smoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond reputeSmoo has a reputation beyond repute
I just got some election stuff in the post, and the Tories have stuck Nick Clegg on theirs saying, without a wiff of irony, "AV leads to broken promises" then lists the things that they themselves have introduced. Hilarious.
__________________
Smoo - Super Pedant by day, Asleep by night.
Dreams are like rainbows. Only idiots chase them.
De tik yer jerb!!
Smoo is offline  
Send a message via MSN to Smoo
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 13:12   #16
Noodles
Internet Sex Pest
Noodles's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,000
Noodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond repute
I'm sure there are perfectly valid arguments for both sides - but for me the "No to AV" campaign doesn't seem to list them. I hope that people see through the campaign lies make their choice based on fact rather than fiction.

If you've not seen the leaflet this site makes some interesting points:

http://imgur.com/a/hgmbQ
Noodles is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 13:18   #17
SphericaL
Fuck You!
SphericaL's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,188
SphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond repute
no kev there is no valid reason to want av unless your in one of the less voted for partys and are desperate for a sniff of power.
__________________
Fueled By Satan....
SphericaL is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 14:02   #18
Dogma
Like a boss.
Dogma's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bristol.
Posts: 8,360
Dogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by SphericaL View Post
no kev there is no valid reason to want av unless your in one of the less voted for partys and are desperate for a sniff of power.
This.
Dogma is offline  
 LAV3R__   LAV3R 
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 14:03   #19
Blunteh
Return of the Colander
Blunteh's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,829
Blunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond repute
<sigh>
Blunteh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 14:07   #20
Dogma
Like a boss.
Dogma's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bristol.
Posts: 8,360
Dogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond repute
I’m Poll Clerking on the day and have been told by the Electoral Commission that we’re not allowed to answer any questions about the two voting systems and the pros and cons of both if asked.

I think the EC are hoping that people actually read the literature that’s been produced for them - which obviously won’t happen as most members of the public are thick.
Dogma is offline  
 LAV3R__   LAV3R 
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 14:30   #21
qui`
HAI, I am NOT teh Iron Man!
qui`'s Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Aldgate, London
Posts: 3,300
qui` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by SphericaL View Post
no kev there is no valid reason to want av unless your in one of the less voted for partys and are desperate for a sniff of power.
How short the memories are of people.

Remember the election?

Or tons of previous elections where the proportion of votes doesn't correspond to the number of seats a party gets, at all?

The current system is fucking rigged, anyone who doesn't see this, is a Tory.
__________________
One day
I am going to grow wings
qui` is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 14:41   #22
Dogma
Like a boss.
Dogma's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bristol.
Posts: 8,360
Dogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond reputeDogma has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by qui` View Post
The current system is fucking rigged, anyone who doesn't see this, is a Tory.
Dogma is offline  
 LAV3R__   LAV3R 
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 14:49   #23
Noodles
Internet Sex Pest
Noodles's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,000
Noodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by SphericaL View Post
no kev there is no valid reason to want av unless your in one of the less voted for partys and are desperate for a sniff of power.
Yes, this is exactly it. The whole problem with FPTP is that it creates a two party system where you can either vote for a douche or a turd sandwich, where no new political parties can enter the race no matter how excellent their ideas are. It turns election campaigning away from issues to just political mud slinging at the opposite party.

The main problem with FPTP is the spoiler effect. After years of elections you are left with a two horse race, two parties constantly flip between each other. As people get disillusioned with one party they vote for the other and it switches. This is why since 1918 we've only had one of two parties governing. I'm counting the current government as conservative - as no-ones going to make the argument that lib dems have any real power to control the conservative party.

The worst part of the spoiler effect is when a new or existing party starts to gain support. After years of a two party system people get disillusioned with both, and the 3rd party gains considerable support, just like what happened with the lib dems at the last election. The problem is the 3rd party votes have to come from somewhere. As historically lab and lib dems have had more in common than tories and lib dems, it stands to reason that a lot of the new votes that the 3rd party get come from labour voters. This means come election time labour votes are lost to the lib dems, giving the conservative party a majority. This normally results in the party that would be the majority of people's third choice being in government*. It also means that people who want to vote for lib dem but vote labour anyway in an attempt to keep the tories out can now show who really is their first choice. The election result statistics would then show who people want to vote for, rather than who they actually voted for, encouraging the other parties by showing them the positive effects of their campaign.

It's easy to make offhand statements about these things, without doing any research, but It would be nice for someone who supported FPTP to engage here and show me some compelling arguments. I have an open mind, and my vote always represents that.

A quick note - AV is not the best system out there, in fact, it's almost as bad as FPTP and shares many of it's downsides. I think the removal of the spoiler effect plus the reduced need to vote tactically is a definite bonus, and might create the shake up that British politics desperately needs.

Quote:
Explaining "majority of people's third choice being in government"

Example - 4 Parties Running, Con, Lab, Lib and a 4th generic extremist party, we'll call "The Racist Party".

40% of people put: Con 1st, Lib 2nd, Lab 3rd, TRP 4th - These are con supporters who want con to win, but would take lib dems over labour. They do not want TRP to win at all.
31% of people put: Lab 1st, Lib 2nd, Con 3rd, TRP 4th - These are lab supporters, who want lab to win, but would much rather have lib dems than con. They do not want TRP to win at all.
24% of people put: Lib 1st, Lab 2nd, Con 3rd, TRP 4th - These are lib supporters, who want lib to win, but would much rather have lab in power than con. They do not want TRP to win at all.
5% of people put: TRP 1st, Con 2nd, Lab 3rd, Lib 4th. - These are TRP supporters, they want TRP to win, but will take con as a 2nd place. They have no love for labour or libs.

In the current system where you only get to pick a single candidate con win outright and get the seat. Although 60% of the voters would like any other party than con, the conservatives win.

Under AV the following would happen. As TRP came 4th, they are immediately dropped and their 2nd choice votes distributed amongst the remaining parties. As they all chose con as their 2nd choice, this gives con an extra 5% of the vote. We look at the new results and con are leading on 45%, but still 55% of voting public want someone else rather than con. As the last place, we then drop the lib dems and reassign their votes. All of the lib dem supporters favoured labour rather than the tories, so that bumps the figure from 31% to 55%, giving labour a winning majority and reflecting the feelings of the public. 55% of the public wanted either a lab or lib dem government, and that's what they got.

Last edited by Noodles; 19-Apr-2011 at 15:20.
Noodles is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 14:51   #24
Orange
schtop! this thread is not ready yet
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,690
Orange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond reputeOrange has a reputation beyond repute
For what it's worth the LibDems have not been vocal enough about their achievements and they're the only thing holding back NHS reform.
Orange is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 15:13   #25
Blunteh
Return of the Colander
Blunteh's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,829
Blunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond reputeBlunteh has a reputation beyond repute
Noodles for PM.
Blunteh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 15:14   #26
SphericaL
Fuck You!
SphericaL's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,188
SphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by qui` View Post
How short the memories are of people.

Remember the election?

Or tons of previous elections where the proportion of votes doesn't correspond to the number of seats a party gets, at all?

The current system is fucking rigged, anyone who doesn't see this, is a Tory.
and the only reason we didnt get a winner last election was because labour changed the voting boundries.
__________________
Fueled By Satan....
SphericaL is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 15:20   #27
naib
forum hax
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 468
naib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond reputenaib has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by SphericaL View Post
no kev there is no valid reason to want av unless your in one of the less voted for partys and are desperate for a sniff of power.
You don't pick your voting system based on which of the current parties it helps, as that is just a subtle form of vote rigging. You should be picking a system by looking at how fair it is, and if it produces a result that reflects how people voted.

AV has it's problems, however it is still better than FPTP.
naib is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 15:25   #28
SphericaL
Fuck You!
SphericaL's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,188
SphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond reputeSphericaL has a reputation beyond repute
no, its not its a joke of a system and its been shown to suck in the majority of countrys that use it, coalition government is not whats best for anyone except the partys who hold just enough seats to hold the majority holding parties to ransom.
__________________
Fueled By Satan....
SphericaL is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 15:28   #29
Noodles
Internet Sex Pest
Noodles's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,000
Noodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond reputeNoodles has a reputation beyond repute
Gerrymandering is undertaken by both political parties, and happens in most systems that allow it. It's a massive problem in the USA has a big problem. Unfortunately it's one of the big downfalls of both the FPTP system and AV. If i'm right, the bill that includes the referendum on AV also includes it's own boundary changes.
Noodles is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 19-Apr-2011, 15:32   #30
qui`
HAI, I am NOT teh Iron Man!
qui`'s Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Aldgate, London
Posts: 3,300
qui` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond reputequi` has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by SphericaL View Post
no, its not its a joke of a system and its been shown to suck in the majority of countrys that use it, coalition government is not whats best for anyone except the partys who hold just enough seats to hold the majority holding parties to ransom.
Yet a system that doesn't represent the voting percentage of the population is just fine huh?

Percentage of vote


Percentage of seats


FPTP promotes a lame 2 party system, those graphs show this to be true. Tactical voting already happens where people view a vote to the lib dems to be a "waste".
__________________
One day
I am going to grow wings
qui` is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   trickery.net > General > Discussion

Tags
daily mail sponsored, getting hyspherical, heart attack time, spherical has maddie, spherignorantcuntal

Users Viewing Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 Release Candidate 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2003 - 2013, trickery.net