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Old 13-Jul-2009, 16:26   #1
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A bit of maths help...

Ok so I'm not even sure if this is possible, but I'm sure one of the trickery faithful will be able to tell me pretty quickly.

In the attached diagram, I need to know whether its possible to work out the curve of C, without measuring it. I'm assuming that there is some posh mathematical formula that will work it out, but I'm not intelligent enough to know it. The only measurement I know for definite is the length of B and the width between A and B.

Oh and the diagram is not to scale...

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Old 13-Jul-2009, 16:29   #2
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is that sector on the end 90 degrees?
if so it's just angle (in radians) x radius (ie your 28mm)
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 16:39   #3
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Radians? Who the hell still uses radians?

What do you mean by the curve?
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 16:48   #4
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Gonna have to use pi sooner or later
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 16:51   #5
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youve got to make some serious assumptions to come up with any answer mathematically
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 16:56   #6
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Not strong on maths but doesn't the diameter times PI (3.14...etc) give the circumference, divide that by 4 and you have the length of C?
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 17:03   #7
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I dont think its possible as you dont know at what point side B starts curving....
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 17:28   #8
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if you can assume all the radii are tangental then its simple both of em are 28mm

a would b 201
b would be 201 -28 - 28
c would be 28 to get curve length of c itd be (2*pi*r)/4

this is all assuming the radius are tangental to B and normal to A
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 17:46   #9
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If you had the length of B it'd be a piece of piss, otherwise I don't see htf you can do it O_o
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 18:18   #10
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He asked for the curve, not the length of the curved bit. That's why i asked, to make sure that's what he meant. The curve would be given by a fiddly equation i can't be arsed trying to type out in this text box
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 18:18   #11
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37

but 37 what i ain't saying
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 18:30   #12
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The main assumption is whether the curve is circular or not. If not it gets quite a lot more complicated and would probably be best described as an elliptic curve. You can approximate its length by integrating the equation of the curve (thereby working out the area under the curve) and deducing its length through interpolation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve

As a side point, elliptic curves were used to prove Fermat's Last Theorem.
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 18:34   #13
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So actually, forget about it and just assume it's a circle
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 18:59   #14
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mathematical anti telharsic harfatum septomin lolz!!1
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 19:14   #15
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If you assume it's a circle then the curve would be something like:
X^2 + Y^2 = 784

If not, it's an ellipse and you are looking at something like:

784x^2/a^2 + Y^2/784 = 1

So no, unless you magically figure out 201 = B + 2D (D being the other length) then you aren't going to figure it out tbh.
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 19:36   #16
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Christ didn't realize that this would spark so much debate

Bit of background, this is a car part that I'm looking to get laser cut out of sheet metal. The company have asked for exact dimentions, obviously to chuck it straight in to their CAD machine. Although I have the original, its hard to tell whether it was designed as a proper circluar curve or not. I have had a play with a protractor and am seirously thinking that its not a proper curve at all

It was designed for an italian car, so that probably explains it...!

Cheers for all the answers, I will go back to them and suggest that we resort to the old tracing method.
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 19:49   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo Fraggins View Post
is that sector on the end 90 degrees?
if so it's just angle (in radians) x radius (ie your 28mm)

So basically if that curve is 90 degrees, as in the diagram below, then to determine the length of that curve use the Pi formula.. We'll say for arguments sake the diameter of the circle below (B) is 56mm

"diameter" multiplied by "Pi" = circumference
56mm x 3.141592653 = 175.93mm
divide that by 4 to get the measurment of that curve (A) = 43.98mm


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Old 13-Jul-2009, 20:13   #18
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That's the length of the curve, not the curvature itself though
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 20:25   #19
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42.
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 23:00   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoRsTy View Post
42.
I agree
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 23:06   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CooK1E View Post
Christ didn't realize that this would spark so much debate

Bit of background, this is a car part that I'm looking to get laser cut out of sheet metal. The company have asked for exact dimentions, obviously to chuck it straight in to their CAD machine. Although I have the original, its hard to tell whether it was designed as a proper circluar curve or not. I have had a play with a protractor and am seirously thinking that its not a proper curve at all

It was designed for an italian car, so that probably explains it...!

Cheers for all the answers, I will go back to them and suggest that we resort to the old tracing method.
not a chance at working this out as too many unknowns
if you had have measured the other flat side, you would still be approximating unless you knew for sure the shape of the curve.

stencil is your best bet
and not bothering asking these q's again your second.

if it's for an italian car it will not matter as they are quirky by nature and if it doesn't match perfectly the rest of the car will have rusted to fit before too long.
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Old 13-Jul-2009, 23:25   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoRsTy View Post
42.
Bastard - I'd just picked that as my witty response!
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Old 14-Jul-2009, 10:14   #23
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LOL was thinking that myself.

from the CAD stuff I've done there is no way to define that curve with the information provided
you dont' even know where the curve starts on the baseline....or if it's centralised.
not enough information but it doesn't look like a sector of a circle
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