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Old 10-Feb-2015, 08:23   #12091
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On the subject of "Biblical Scientific Foreknowledge"

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The first surgical operation described in the Bible was the removal of a rib from Adam, which was performed by first putting Adam into an unconscious, "deep sleep-like trance."[19] This was the equivalent of anesthesia — thousands of years before anesthesia using inhaled ether was developed by William Morton in 1846. Had scientists and physicians been more openminded about Genesis 2:21 (perhaps they had considered it a miracle, and thus impossible for humans to achieve), they may have discovered anesthesia far sooner, and saved many more lives.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 08:37   #12092
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Just saw two plain clothed police officers arrest and drag some guy off my train after they searched his bag an found a huge bag of pot. He was claiming personal use as they cuffed him lol.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 08:48   #12093
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Just saw two plain clothed police officers arrest and drag some guy off my train after they searched his bag an found a huge bag of pot. He was claiming personal use as they cuffed him lol.
Should be legal anyway.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 09:14   #12094
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Just saw two plain clothed police officers arrest and drag some guy off my train after they searched his bag an found a huge bag of pot. He was claiming personal use as they cuffed him lol.

All that money wasted.

Paying the coppers to investigate what is really a non-crime in the scheme of things, the arrest, the court costs, potential prison costs etc. Etc.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 10:10   #12095
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All that money wasted.

Paying the coppers to investigate what is really a non-crime in the scheme of things, the arrest, the court costs, potential prison costs etc. Etc.
Depends on how you look at it.

What if all the chavey scum that pay him for it get their funds by stealing your shit and causing damage/mayhem - what is the cost of dealing with that continual drain?...
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 10:18   #12096
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depends where the money is going tbh, may not be wasted time/money at all. If he grows and sells it for an income, meh, ok, do what you want. He could be part of something worse, and then thats a problem.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 10:41   #12097
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Criminals are only criminals because something is illegal.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 10:43   #12098
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Depends on how you look at it.

What if all the chavey scum that pay him for it get their funds by stealing your shit and causing damage/mayhem - what is the cost of dealing with that continual drain?...
Or... what if all the money wasted on the courts was put into getting folks caught with drugs into help so that they become more productive members of society. Portugal has got guts.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 10:45   #12099
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Not sure I agree with decriminalisation. It still has the criminals running the show. Best going the whole hog and legalising and making tax on stuff which you can use fund education, treatment etc.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 10:59   #12100
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Exactly.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 11:02   #12101
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It's the first step. The goal should be harm reduction. It's only a criminal justice issue because we've established a black market.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 11:26   #12102
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Depends on how you look at it.

What if all the chavey scum that pay him for it get their funds by stealing your shit and causing damage/mayhem - what is the cost of dealing with that continual drain?...
Prove that any significant portion of that money gets spent on weed over say, drink and fags.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 13:34   #12103
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I don't think you can sensibly legalise with a welfare system. Do whatever you want and others will pick up the tab is completely out of whack as it is
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 13:46   #12104
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The implication being that availability is any kind of issue as it stands.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 13:48   #12105
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I have no vested interest in the legalisation or decriminalisation of weed (don't use it, don't sell it) but I don't see how any sensible person can be against the legalisation and taxation of it. I'm struggling to think of a single negative consequence of doing so.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 13:50   #12106
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I'm struggling to think of a single negative consequence of doing so.
Political suicide?
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 13:55   #12107
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I don't think you can sensibly legalise with a welfare system. Do whatever you want and others will pick up the tab is completely out of whack as it is
What do you think has a higher net benefit to the tax payer:

1/ Treatment and benefits for those who can't use drugs responsibly while taxing and regulating drug use and production

or

2/ Policing, trying (in court), and jailing not just those who can't use drugs responsibly but also their supply network? Also treatment for those who take drugs responsibly but due to lack of regulation are, for example, hospitalised due to being given GHB instead of the much safer MDMA?

You only have to look at alcohol and opium prohibition to look at the effect that criminalising drugs has vs the effects of legalising them. There are still issues with legalised drugs but they don't disappear because you make it illegal, you often make them worse because criminalising drugs makes them literally stronger - weed has much more THC than it did when legal, prohibition era bootleggers ran spirits, not beer, heroin (much stronger and therefore easier to smuggle) came about because opium was made illegal etc, etc.

Making drugs illegal has no benefit whatsoever to society.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 14:01   #12108
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I have no vested interest in the legalisation or decriminalisation of weed (don't use it, don't sell it) but I don't see how any sensible person can be against the legalisation and taxation of it. I'm struggling to think of a single negative consequence of doing so.
A couple of hundred thousand extra of the working age realising that getting stoned on benefits beats working on the bottom rungs I would imagine. It won't be a huge change, but its another step in the wrong direction.

Bear in mind that every UK resident is entitled to about 4000 of free healthcare and 4000 of free housing before anything else even kicks in.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 14:06   #12109
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A couple of hundred thousand extra of the working age realising that getting stoned on benefits beats working on the bottom rungs I would imagine. It won't be a huge change, but its another step in the wrong direction.

Bear in mind that every UK resident is entitled to about 4000 of free healthcare and 4000 of free housing before anything else even kicks in.
Well, prohibition has been tried for the last 70 years, and hasn't done so well really. I see your argument and it may be true, or it may just be a fabrication. We will never know until something esle is tried. It's high time that happened.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 14:13   #12110
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A couple of hundred thousand extra of the working age realising that getting stoned on benefits beats working on the bottom rungs I would imagine. It won't be a huge change, but its another step in the wrong direction.
.
Again, I'm not sure what you think is stepping in any direction other than where it us now. If anything we see an additional return from our wasted benefits via the vat revenue.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 14:40   #12111
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A couple of hundred thousand extra of the working age realising that getting stoned on benefits beats working on the bottom rungs I would imagine. It won't be a huge change, but its another step in the wrong direction.

Bear in mind that every UK resident is entitled to about 4000 of free healthcare and 4000 of free housing before anything else even kicks in.
Whereas it currently costs 18000 pa for an open prison place. Even if they do spend their lives stoned in a free house it will still be cheaper.

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Depends on how you look at it.

What if all the chavey scum that pay him for it get their funds by stealing your shit and causing damage/mayhem - what is the cost of dealing with that continual drain?...
This is an interesting argument, basically saying that the best way to stop theft is by removing things from sale that people want to buy. I can't see why you'd just stop at drugs though...
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 14:48   #12112
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I don't use or sell weed, but have an interest in it due to medical issues. I've been told a number of times by different people working in the NHS that it would benefit my symptoms. Also in the America, the states that have legalised it have made money off the taxes, and crime was down by over 10%. Here's a report from Colorado.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/...only-8-months/
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 16:37   #12113
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I'd be shocked if total legalisation didn't bump us - I imagine that there are numbers out there somewhere.

I'm not sure people go to prison for possession these days (do they), but one benefit of coraling such folk from the ages of 18 - 40, makes it harder for them to multiply
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 16:38   #12114
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Plenty of police and court time to be wasted before the prison system gets a look in.
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 16:54   #12115
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Beer does more damage than weed.
Proof!

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Old 10-Feb-2015, 17:14   #12116
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http://youtu.be/QC_nrLIc2Zk

Worth a watch. Puts a new spin on so called "hard" drugs. Safer than paracetamol!
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 17:35   #12117
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Good lord just checked this thread, didn't mean to kick off a debate!
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Old 10-Feb-2015, 17:59   #12118
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shut it hippy
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Old 11-Feb-2015, 20:27   #12119
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About time, England ban smoking in cars if kids under 18 present.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31310685
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Old 11-Feb-2015, 20:43   #12120
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Personally I think it should be banned in all public areas - pavements, bus stops etc. I don't see why non-smokes should have to breath in other people's filth.
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