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Old 05-Apr-2018, 12:01   #31
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A quick search through the company directory indicates 46 members of staff who are listed as Secretaries, Trainee Secretaries or Administrative Assistants, of those the only males are listed as Administrative Assistants and there are only 4 of them.

I think there is still a perception that a secretarial position is for women, hence why we are advertising more jobs for Administrative Assistants than secretaries and accordingly starting to see more diversification in the applicants, even though the job is fundamentally the same.

I don't think the skew is particularly down to hiring practices, certainly for us I believe it's more down to the available pool of applicants.
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 12:08   #32
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Cynically there are very strong incentives for young women to become PAs and part of secretarial pools to rich powerful men that just don't exist the other way around.
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 13:53   #33
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"The average woman at this company is paid 45.3% less than the average man"

Ouch. Very few men want seem to want be secretaries or legal assistants however.
Want to be or are suited to being? That's the rub of many of these things. It feels like part of this issue is a perception of what skilled/unskilled is. I know I'd be a good PA for all of about five seconds before being very shit at it. Does that mean the PA role is skilled and underpaid?
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 14:26   #34
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less skilled vs unskilled, more absolute resource pool and desirability within that pool I'd suggest (which determines skills chosen to be learned).

There are lots of people that like being social and organising stuff and can do it well enough to drive a lower wage. The real anachronisms in the UK for example are driven in the heavily unionised or public sectors, although its hard to be sure for obvious reasons. Nurses for example are rather underpaid compared to say the US private system (or the UK private / contract sector). Firemen on the other hand seem to be way over compensated.
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 16:03   #35
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Want to be or are suited to being? That's the rub of many of these things. It feels like part of this issue is a perception of what skilled/unskilled is. I know I'd be a good PA for all of about five seconds before being very shit at it. Does that mean the PA role is skilled and underpaid?
Given what I found out when looking at the job titles I would guess it is balanced between being a perception issue that a secretary is a female role and and an admin assistant is more gender neutral and competencies, give me 100 candidates, 50 men and 50 women and I bet on average there'd be more competent organisers amongst the women, it seems to me to be a trait that is stronger in women.
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Old 06-Apr-2018, 07:02   #36
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I think people would be surprised at how much a PA in the city makes. Itís a good income for a role with limited formal education requirements and a 9-5. That said, itís a pretty stressful and for a lot of roles can be quite monotonous. Itís also fucking hard to find good ones. Maybe women have more of an aptitude for it, but that doesnít account for the disparity in just how many of them are women. If I was to guess Iíd say a men donít even consider it as an option, or have too much of an ego to work for a 25 year old chump.

On the topic in hand, Jordan Peterson seems to bring out the absolute worst in people and I havenít read his book or listened to any of his lectures, but his interview with Cathy Newman was pretty good.
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Old 06-Apr-2018, 07:16   #37
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For a modern cost driven Solicitors practice a 1-1 fee earner to support staff ratio has pretty much disappeared, the goal is to automate as much as possible and reduce support staff costs, the ratios are more like 3 or 4 to 1 these days. This is where highly organised people are in demand and just being a quick typist no longer cuts it. As for the idea of a PA I don't think we've ever had such a position.
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Old 06-Apr-2018, 09:55   #38
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I think people would be surprised at how much a PA in the city makes. It’s a good income for a role with limited formal education requirements and a 9-5. That said, it’s a pretty stressful and for a lot of roles can be quite monotonous. It’s also fucking hard to find good ones. Maybe women have more of an aptitude for it, but that doesn’t account for the disparity in just how many of them are women. If I was to guess I’d say a men don’t even consider it as an option, or have too much of an ego to work for a 25 year old chump.

On the topic in hand, Jordan Peterson seems to bring out the absolute worst in people and I haven’t read his book or listened to any of his lectures, but his interview with Cathy Newman was pretty good.
When I worked for an American bank in the 90s, the PAs were almost exclusively women in the London and women or gay in NY. Loads of them were bi. Bilingual, that is. As I recall, they were on about £40-50k even back then.
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Old 06-Apr-2018, 10:20   #39
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Name them Executive Assistants and I bet the % of male role holders skyrockets.
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Old 06-Apr-2018, 10:50   #40
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Loads are called EAs now, Iím not sure it makes much of a difference.
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Old 07-Apr-2018, 04:12   #41
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They're called EAs where I work and the overwhelming majority are still female. I think men largely choose not to apply for those roles even though they are paid more or less the same as routine technical or facilities support staff. Even despite the benefits of working directly for senior individuals (although there is some chance of working for a dickhead).
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