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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:05   #61
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Originally Posted by Eja Cool8 View Post
Slightly different scenario; in those days the attacks were less against the general public, and more against institutions, infrastructure and commerce. Plus, you generally got a warning...
That was the later strategy. The 1970's pub bombings injured and killed more civilians than anything else, with no warnings.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:11   #62
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As late as 1987 they were bombing without warnings.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:13   #63
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But again, there's a credible tip off, the heavies come round and smash his doors in at 5am and they find a questionable internet history, objectionable pamphlets, a drivers licence and some knives. Then what?
It's tough isn't it. Unless they do have explosives or communication with ISIS directing them, you cant lock someone up for watching this stuff, until they do something and then its too late.

Seems to me that anyone on thew watchlist hiring a car/van should be prioritized. Maybe they already are.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:14   #64
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Why is anyone sane talking about trying to deal with this as late as the point at which someone is buying knives and renting vans?
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:25   #65
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As late as 1987 they were bombing without warnings.
Yes, and I'm not even sure what warnings there were for the Baltic Exchange and London Bridge bombs in 1992.

I just meant to point out whilst we keep saying oh it's different now, we used to get warnings. I've said that a lot myself as someone who commutes through London Bridge since the 1980's. It's not actually true.

Doesn't make this feel any less worse right now though.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:27   #66
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Why is anyone sane talking about trying to deal with this as late as the point at which someone is buying knives and renting vans?
because we can't go back in time and not go balls deep in on Dubya's 'War on Terror'? Yes we have to tackle to root causes, why are these people disenfranchised by our society enough to do this, but we also have to try and head off those who have gone too far, without creating a situation which causes more fanatics.

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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:32   #67
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I think there's a reasonable case for pointing some of that blame at the Saudis. When they go around handing out £200bn for arms contracts they aren't just buying weapons.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:38   #68
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I think there's a reasonable case for pointing some of that blame at the Saudis. When they go around handing out £200bn for arms contracts they aren't just buying weapons.
Interesting that they're pointing the finger at Qatar now?
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 10:42   #69
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We're also dependent on Qatar who supply almost 30% of our natural gas imports. Guess where they are based and who owns the building? The Shard.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 11:11   #70
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Interestingly, it's being stated one of the attackers appeared on a C4 program about Jihadis.
I suppose this is the program: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/t...episode-guide/
...though "Page Not Found" now.

How anyone can appear on such a program and still be walking the streets (or not now as in this case) baffles me.

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The 27-year-old from Watford, who has not been named at the request of counter-terror police, was allegedly caught on camera during the filming of the Channel 4 show.

Alongside two notorious extremist preachers, the man was seen unfurling the ‘black standard of Isis’ in public. The preachers were already well known to police and intelligence officials because of their extremist views
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 11:13   #71
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Interesting that they're pointing the finger at Qatar now?
..and Qatar being ostracised according to news reports.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...over-terrorism
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 11:26   #72
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Interestingly, it's being stated one of the attackers appeared on a C4 program about Jihadis.
I suppose this is the program: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/t...episode-guide/
...though "Page Not Found" now.

How anyone can appear on such a program and still be walking the streets (or not now as in this case) baffles me.

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Because you can't yet arrest people for saying things you don't like.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 11:30   #73
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Inciting racial hatred/incitement against religions not cover it?
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 11:33   #74
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Depends what he said. Sorry, I keep coming back to "it depends", but the answer to a lot of this is so fact-specific.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 11:44   #75
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We're also dependent on Qatar who supply almost 30% of our natural gas imports. Guess where they are based and who owns the building? The Shard.
My guess is that dependence on Qatari gas is going to tail off significantly over the next five years give the sheer volume of the stuff coming out of the US (although we may still buy from them, price will be much much lower).

Still, good argument for shale, right? Right?
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 12:04   #76
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Renewables will also be a bigger part of the energy mix by then. Has the US already built out liquefaction capacity? Qatar owns a regas facility in Wales which can handle a quarter of the UK's gas requirement. They are still going to get a cut however you look at it. I'm sure they can send their trains somewhere else since they are sitting on the world's largest field and presumably their breakeven costs are still lower than US shale.
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 12:05   #77
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Just look at NBP pricing
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Old 05-Jun-2017, 13:34   #78
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The best retort to the sort of thing we have suffered of late:

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Old 06-Jun-2017, 17:06   #79
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So the third terrorist from Saturday gets stopped at Bologna airport trying to get to Syria. He tells officials he's going there to fight for ISIS, and has all kinds of radical info on him. He is placed on an Italian watch list. How the fuck did he end up in London working in a Pakistani restaurant.
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Old 06-Jun-2017, 17:14   #80
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Because the Italians didn't tell us about it?
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Old 06-Jun-2017, 17:31   #81
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Because intelligence and police agencies as well as border control across European Countries is incredibly complex and challenge, and because with 20,000 people on the UK watch list and that is multiplied many times across Europe and the world.

It's not fair, its not 'right' but we're human, errors will happen, mistakes will be made and lives will be lost. We need to learn lessons, improve and work to stop it happening again in future.
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Old 06-Jun-2017, 17:32   #82
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Because the Italians didn't tell us about it?
I thought as we are still part of the EU, we all share that type of info?
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Old 06-Jun-2017, 17:35   #83
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Security Services say they didn't hear about it from the Italians. Even if they had, of he has an Italian passport he's free to come and go here as he pleases unless he's committed a crime.
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Old 06-Jun-2017, 22:31   #84
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unless he's committed a crime.
people seem to forget this bit, can't lock someone up for being angry otherwise kahuna would be dropping the soap at her majesty's pleasure....

if the law changes though, who'll be first to report tbk?
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Old 06-Jun-2017, 22:41   #85
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Old 17-Aug-2017, 18:02   #86
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Terrorist attack in Barcelona, a number dead.
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