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Old 07-Apr-2016, 21:00   #61
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Dave just had a 'Well actually....' moment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6973586.html
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 21:03   #62
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Surprised. No, actually I'm not surprised.
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 21:20   #63
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erm, laundering money for companies owned by interests within embargoed states is absolutely corrupt and entirely illegal. We're not talking about grey areas with much of this, even the parts that related to non-embargoed countries still potentially fall foul of a ton of laws.
Agreed, but I'm not so worried about creative accounting for multinational companies and high net worth individuals.
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 21:41   #64
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Why? That's ridiculous. If Cameron has instigated or initiated tax planning through BVI that's one thing, if his brother is doing the same that's another.
He's admitted he profited from his father's offshore funds, he should resign straight away.
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 21:45   #65
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Only if he hasn't paid tax on the profits. If he has, he has no reason to resign.

Again, stop letting your hatred for Cameron rule your head.
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 21:48   #66
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He's admitted he profited from his father's offshore funds, he should resign straight away.
No, unless you're suggesting anyone who ever inherited a single dollar from their parents' offshore holdings is unfit for public office.
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 21:57   #67
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That's not why he's unfit for public office. He's unfit for public office because, as this story amongst others demonstrate, he doesn't not have the public interest as a priority.
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 21:59   #68
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Honestly, an inherited 30k in an offshore trust that gets taxes on remittance by HMRC does not remotely suggest he doesn't have the public interest as a priority (not least because it was sold when he became PM).
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 22:01   #69
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What this story illustrates is the capacity for Dave to fuck up comms as well as anyone in the Labour Party.
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Old 07-Apr-2016, 23:06   #70
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The arrogance of believing that the initial answers given would satisfy anyone make any shitstorm heading his way over this all the more funny (regardless of moral fault for what despite my dislike of the man was relatively innocent actions).
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 07:34   #71
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Honestly, an inherited 30k in an offshore trust that gets taxes on remittance by HMRC does not remotely suggest he doesn't have the public interest as a priority (not least because it was sold when he became PM).
Didn't suggest it did. Personally exempting trusts from taxation goes a fair way towards that position though.

Straight question, do you think his priority lies with the welfare of the public majority?
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 08:14   #72
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Again, stop letting your hatred for Cameron rule your head.
Don't see you posting anything like this to the people on here who are all over anything Corbyn does like a rash. As far as I'm concerned, he was questioned on this matter a number of times, and he had the chance to come clean, and he didn't. So he was trying to hide it.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 08:25   #73
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If he'd come out and fesses up to the 30k at the start there wouldn't be nearly as much over reaction about this. As a practical point of view, 30k in an offshore company is a pretty shit way to avoid tax. You'd get hit for less tax holding shares in a UK PLC.

However using language such as 'it was something like 30k' is pretty insulting to the general public, a lot of whom would never see a lump sum of 30k in their lifetime.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 08:45   #74
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What about the fact he never declared those shares on the list of personal interests? For 9 years?
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 09:15   #75
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Didn't suggest it did. Personally exempting trusts from taxation goes a fair way towards that position though.

Straight question, do you think his priority lies with the welfare of the public majority?
Yes.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 09:27   #76
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Oh and 30k is just under the capital gains threshold.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 09:34   #77
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It's not, the ~20k gain was probably realised over a number of years.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 09:35   #78
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This thread really needs beef's insight.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 09:43   #79
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If only we had mentions / user tagging
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 10:53   #80
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Surely there are 100s of MPs that dodged far more tax using home flipping than Cameron here?

But yes this certainly was the "thick of it" media management, particularly against the backdrop of austerity and the google type deals
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 11:10   #81
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Cgt is on profit with allowances you would struggle to need to pay it regardless of offshore status (treatment is no different onshore or offshore). What would be different is the Corp tax suffered by the fund which depending on holdings could be nothing or significant.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 11:28   #82
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It's not particularly racy. If he has paid UK tax on remittance, which it appears he has, then there seem to me only to be 2 key issues: (1) his handling of the disclosure - i.e. going from saying its a private matter, to being economical with the facts by omitting the divestment, to admission that he did in fact benefit from it; and (2) his position on tax avoidance more generally with respect to it being morally suspect (something he must have known at the time that he and his family have personally benefitted from in the past) when also having a go at Jimmy Carr et al - and the fact he's supposed to be hosting a tax transparency summit next May.

Yeah he had an investment in an offshore fund (like many other people) but ultimately paid UK tax on the gain (which he should have done as being tax resident in the UK). If you are setting up a fund then I'm afraid it's pretty normal business practice to think carefully about how you structure that fund and what options are available from a commercial, investment, regulatory, tax perspectives. The fact it was held offshore in itself is not in my opinion a major scandal. Anyone who takes insurance would like their premiums to be as low as possible and one way that insurance houses do this is to structure it offshore.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 12:40   #83
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Whether he paid tax on it, he still didn't declare his interests as he should have done.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 13:11   #84
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And further, this sort of thing moves from bootnote to revelation because we've spent six years or more on an austerity footing being told that we're all in it together taking it up the arse. When the architect of that reality is demonstrated to be seen exempting himself from taking it up the arse wherever possible it's news. The bottom line matters of course. It's a nothing financially. Man Pays Tax. You're welcome to take that away. Principles matter as well though, that tax was paid on share value generated on untaxed profit and others are welcome to take that away as opinion as they prefer.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 14:34   #85
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If it's a fund, the only returns are those on the underlying assets. It makes no sense to have an individual pay 28% CGT (or rather 40% of that, as it was for much of the recent past) and have investors in the same underlying assets investing through a fund pay 58% on the same gain.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 14:37   #86
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If he hasn't declared it when he should have, that's just stupid and he should be subject to whatever censure the relevant authority imposes.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 14:38   #87
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Yes - everyone seems to be assuming that all investors to the fund are UK resident. If an investor isn't then it makes sense for the fund to be structured offshore so that taxes are paid in the hands of the recipient rather than gains being subject to UK tax at source which would then require some administration and compliance to get tax relief.
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 18:57   #88
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If it's a fund, the only returns are those on the underlying assets. It makes no sense to have an individual pay 28% CGT (or rather 40% of that, as it was for much of the recent past) and have investors in the same underlying assets investing through a fund pay 58% on the same gain.
Not given the vast majority of UK funds are exempt from CGT anyway no. In this particular case the offshore status of the fund doent really give any tax advantage to a UK taxpayer at all (given that the vast majority of UK funds dont end up with a corporation tax liability on income anyway which is obviously the other side of the coin). Trying to hide and gloss over the facts just looks more of an inanely stupid move. Did they really think "its a private matter" was going to cut it?
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 19:01   #89
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What are these funds that don't attract CGT? They sound great!
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Old 08-Apr-2016, 19:02   #90
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What are these funds that don't attract CGT? They sound great!
Within the fund as a corporate entity - not on the taxpayer
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