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Old 15-Mar-2018, 13:18   #31
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Last time we ignored everyone and invaded a country on the basis of a 'Dossier on WMDs' I recall it turned out to be a bit of a exaggeration and fibbing. One would hope people would learn from past mistakes, but that's usually expecting too much of people in my limited experiences.

Besides, claiming that Russia did it and backing it up with emotional rhetoric and hand waving away the lack of an evidence trail is one thing. Proving they are in an international court whereby they end up legally on the hook for it is entirely different with far more serious outcomes. Why settle for the former if you can achieve the latter?
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 13:24   #32
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Novichok has reportedly only ever been produced at one site, and attempts to replicate it by the west have failed.
Not quite. As I pointed out in the other thread, Novichok was produced in what is now Uzbekistan. The US is helping them clear up the lab there. So the US at a minimum has had ample access. There's no sane motive there of course. Unless the US kept some and lost it.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 13:46   #33
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I'm just laughing at the idea of taking a nuanced evidential position in this instance.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ko-how-and-why

Which is an entirely different thing from a court judgement and also something we haven't struggled with previously.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 13:48   #34
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Russia is in a sticky position no matter what - their involvement in this isn't up for debate.

I think people are now starting to get really sick and tired (see Nikki Haley speech yesterday?) of Russian just pissing about and messing everyone around instead of proving they deserve a chair at the same table as the rest of us ("us" being the privileged few with da big guns). Being in this club takes responsibility and owning up to your actions - they are starting to have a Don't Give a Fuck attitude to many things....

Curiously though - wasting someone with a nerve agent is a bit of a shit way of doing away with them (there are far quicker and less risky to others methods) - unless of course you want to test a countries response to it's exposure....
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 13:51   #35
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I think we a few steps away from declaring war on Russia, I'd save the nuance for real effects post initial responses to overt state use of nerve agents on the UK mainland. I'm not giving any real credence to the idea that "lost" nerve agent in non-state actor hands, not least because of the target specificity.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 13:58   #36
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We are no where near declaring war on Russia.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 14:00   #37
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We are no where near declaring war on Russia.
That's something that we would have to discuss with NATO anyway.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 14:04   #38
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We just couldn’t afford it. Neither can Russia to be fair.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 14:22   #39
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Not quite. As I pointed out in the other thread, Novichok was produced in what is now Uzbekistan. The US is helping them clear up the lab there. So the US at a minimum has had ample access. There's no sane motive there of course. Unless the US kept some and lost it.
Just to back up this assertion with something, here's a news report from 1999(!) about the place.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/25/wo...t-cleanup.html
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 14:44   #40
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It is well beyond the realm of plausible thought to think that these chemicals, which started to be cleaned up in 1999, were somehow kept in storage for the last 19 years before showing up for the first time through some rogue individuals to assassinate a 66 year old former agent who’s lived in the U.K. for the last 8 years. Bonkers. But again, 9/11 conspiracy nuts exist.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 14:51   #41
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Old 16-Mar-2018, 17:25   #42
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That other dead Russian is now being treated as a murder.
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Old 16-Mar-2018, 17:36   #43
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Didn’t realise it’s in the next town over from me
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Old 17-Mar-2018, 01:01   #44
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It's welcome but a shame that it takes a nerve agent attack on UK soil to make Boris Johnson start acting like an honest to goodness sturdy foreign secretary. Cometh the hour I guess. And hopefully cometh the brutal strangulation of Russian money in London for the lols.
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Old 18-Mar-2018, 19:04   #45
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So, the Russians are voting. I predict Putin to win with 117% of the vote.
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Old 18-Mar-2018, 19:15   #46
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So, the Russians are voting. I predict Putin to win with 117% of the vote.
According to BBC, he's increased his share of the vote.
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Old 18-Mar-2018, 19:25   #47
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I almost got it right, in a way. His vote share is roughly 117% of the 2012 result. 63.6% versus 73.9%

I did mean originally that 117% of the Russian populace would vote for him, but I'll settle for the second interpretation.
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Old 18-Mar-2018, 19:51   #48
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They're so cunning though, free transport to vote, cookouts laid on, bands playing, Games for kids. If you're going to be an autocrat at least do it with a decent turnout eh.
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Old 19-Mar-2018, 05:21   #49
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Election counting in Kemerovo!

]
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Old 19-Mar-2018, 11:14   #50
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You have to give Putin credit, he does know how to rig an election properly and without giving himself 99% approval

More interestingly, its worth talking to a Russian if you get a chance [anecdote generalisation start] they act just like a standard western liberal until the topic of Russia comes up, then there is a serious level of fierce patriotism and Putin gets less than an apologetic shrug [anecdote off]
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Old 19-Mar-2018, 12:34   #51
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Old 04-Apr-2018, 06:35   #52
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Oh, Boris. “I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory..and they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, "Are you sure?" And he said there's no doubt.”
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Old 04-Apr-2018, 12:27   #53
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Just incase anyone is interested, Inside Porton Down is repeated on BBC 4 tomorrow at 10pm. Really good documentary, some scary shit!
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Old 04-Apr-2018, 16:23   #54
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"Inside Porton Down" aka 'How Cunning-Stunt started his quest to be a fleshbag of goop'
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 20:23   #55
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The Russian Ambassador live at the UN is a hilarious piece of work. They're accusing us of knocking off all the other Russians that have died in the UK over the last decade now. Also the United States is gullible for believing our lies.
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 20:38   #56
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Very long tract about the true meaning of Dostoevsky's work and a scathing review of an EU slideshow. It's all go.
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 20:40   #57
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Demands to meet the Skripal's cat. lol.
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 20:45   #58
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GODWIN'S LAW FULFILLED. We're literally Hitler.
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Old 05-Apr-2018, 21:53   #59
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To be fair, IDS isn't far off.
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Old 08-Apr-2018, 11:11   #60
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How the fuck can Boris describe anyone else as an idiot.
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