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Old 24-Aug-2012, 16:09   #31
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I think UCI would adhere as long as USADA are found to have followed WADA rules. Looking at the jurisdiction thing, USADA are the agency that has the evidence (apparently) and therefore will dole out the punishment. Which would be a loss of all results from August 1, 1998 and a lifetime ban from participating any sport sanctioned by a signatory to the WADA Code.

Probably rather simplistic, but my understanding.
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Old 24-Aug-2012, 16:16   #32
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Feck me, is this some kind of record-breaker on the thread resurrection front?

Be a shame if Lance did get nailed, I was one of the ones rooting for him after all the business with cancer etc., but if you do the crime....
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Old 24-Aug-2012, 16:17   #33
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The crux of his case was their lack of jurisdiction, but I guess we'll see now. He's thrown in the towel but still not submitted to adjudication. The ADA is in a position where they now have to cite evidence and offer testimony. If it's less than watertight they're going to look fucking silly.
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Old 24-Aug-2012, 16:23   #34
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The crux of his case was their lack of jurisdiction, but I guess we'll see now. He's thrown in the towel but still not submitted to adjudication. The ADA is in a position where they now have to cite evidence and offer testimony. If it's less than watertight they're going to look fucking silly.
After all this time you'd think they'd have the basic sense to make sure of their case before coming out with this shit, or is that just too simple for an outfit like that?
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Old 24-Aug-2012, 17:13   #35
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I'm sure I read that he is the most drug tested athlete ever.
Will be really interested to see this evidence and hope that by throwing in the towel he's not immediately assumed to be guilty.
Although I guess that's a logical conclusion to draw
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Old 24-Aug-2012, 19:39   #36
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I'm sure I read that he is the most drug tested athlete ever.
(
yeah . I'm of two minds.

Without seeing the evidence , it's really suspect. As has been pointed out , they take 7 years to get to this point, never failed a test. In terms of titles it's up to the cycling body not USADA.

The guys who I have seen come out against him have all been nailed themselves and this time by positive tests so at best their testimony must be suspect. Then the US legal system dropped their case a while back ... so yeah a bit odd until it all shakes out.
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Old 25-Aug-2012, 12:18   #37
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This is the exact UCI statement for clarification;

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Originally Posted by UCI
The UCI notes Lance Armstrong's decision not to proceed to arbitration in the case that USADA has brought against him.

The UCI recognises that USADA is reported as saying that it will strip Mr. Armstrong of all results from 1998 onwards in addition to imposing a lifetime ban from participating in any sport which recognises the World Anti-Doping Code.

Article 8.3 of the WADC states that where no hearing occurs the Anti-Doping Organisation with results management responsibility shall submit to the parties concerned (Mr Armstrong, WADA and UCI) a reasoned decision explaining the action taken.

As USADA has claimed jurisdiction in the case the UCI expects that it will issue a reasoned decision in accordance with Article 8.3 of the Code.
Perhaps once all the information comes to light, and if it is at all dubious, then Lance Armstrong would consider taking his case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. This has got to be a more independent and fair process than USADA seemingly has to offer at present, and apparently the main reason for him dropping his case.

Looking at some posts on other forums, the following people would then be in line to receive the Tour de France titles;

1999-Nardello (7th)
2000-Beloki (3rd)
2001-Beloki (3rd)
2002-Beloki (2nd)
2003-Zubeldia (5th)
2004-Azevedo (5th)
2005-Evans (8th)

Beloki banned by his team in 2006 was subsequently cleared

I believe that if he is stripped of his titles, the record books should remain blank for those years.
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Old 04-Sep-2012, 15:03   #38
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Ok, so here's an interesting article.

http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30...about-the-bike

The guy who wrote the article then signed up to PH to answer some of the queries that PHers had:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/p...=169&t=1171598 (Choose LA Vs. USADA)

The whole thread is worth skimming if you're interested.

...and now the USADA is set to reveal evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19433990
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Old 04-Sep-2012, 22:37   #39
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Well interesting read. I've seen some of that mentioned elsewhere over the past few weeks, which tends me towards thinking Armstrong = muppet.

Just need to see what the USADA comes out with.
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Old 04-Sep-2012, 22:44   #40
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He's toast. Tyler Hamilton's book sounds pretty damning...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...?newsfeed=true
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Old 04-Sep-2012, 23:26   #41
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Not sure if the WADA are as poorly paid as hamilton claims.

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Ab..._update_EN.pdf

Either way despite apparently prolific use of enhancers the WAPA tests were clearly too poorly designed to suss Armstrong for nearly 10 years of examinations. What a shambles all round. As someone said earlier, there's literally no winners here.
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Old 04-Sep-2012, 23:27   #42
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Would be interesting to see the totals on funding between the start of Armstrongs Tours and now.
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Old 04-Sep-2012, 23:42   #43
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Yeah, that would be interesting. From a rough look it appears they received $18m in 2002, $23m in 2006 and $28m in 2010, which isn't an amazing rate of growth.

That Guardian article wasn't the one I was looking for, this one is better for coverage of The Secret Race. Agreed that no-one comes out of this particularly well.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

Working from home isn't going so well for me tonight...
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Old 04-Sep-2012, 23:46   #44
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And this one: http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...se-Closed.html

(although I've just noticed that book's writer is a former editor of the site).
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Old 11-Sep-2012, 23:47   #45
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Important to note how difficult it is to find these drugs, you have to devise a test to look for something that you don't actually know what it is.
When people like BALCO (hgh peeps) design these drugs they are specifically made to be undetectable, without knowing what to look for Chemists jobs are made hugely difficult. Especially considering that the amount of funding that goes into creating new performance enhancing drugs far far far outstrips the amount of funding going into developing tests for new ones.

Armstrong looks guilty as fuck, the "im tired of fighting this" excuses are thin at best.
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Old 11-Sep-2012, 23:48   #46
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EESH! Where have you been!
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Old 17-Sep-2012, 09:43   #47
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...ance-armstrong

Apparently a compelling read.
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Old 17-Sep-2012, 12:58   #48
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There's so much romance surrounding Lance's record seven titles and his recovery from cancer that everyone wants to believe he was clean. In reality, history has shown us that great achievements in the Tour have been down to doping:

Landis
Riis
Contador
Pantani
Armstrong?

Forget The Di Vinci Code, perhaps Lance's cancer story is the biggest cover up in human history (for the record, I'm not saying he didn't have cancer, rather it made people think he wouldn't touch drugs because of his ordeal).
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Old 17-Sep-2012, 13:01   #49
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Not forgetting ol' Miguel.
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Old 26-Sep-2012, 19:13   #50
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EESH! Where have you been!
I had to get what people call "a job". It's fucking shit.


In cycling related news, the UCI suing Kimmage stinks.
Quite want to read that Tyler Hamilton book.

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Old 26-Sep-2012, 19:55   #51
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In cycling related news, the UCI suing Kimmage stinks.
It's absolutely impossible to see any benefit to the UCI other than satisfaction of a personal vendetta, all of which continues to cast massive doubts over the quality and balance of their procedures to date. six grand ffs?
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Old 28-Sep-2012, 17:24   #52
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Have they released anything yet with regards to Lance?
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Old 28-Sep-2012, 18:55   #53
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October 6th was the last date announced for the release to the UCI of the case file.

So in essence .........no.
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Old 10-Oct-2012, 21:34   #54
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Later today apparently...
For the first time I'm starting to doubt Lance after reading this though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19903814
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Old 10-Oct-2012, 21:38   #55
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Confirmed - complete cock-end. Prison term possibility?
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Old 11-Oct-2012, 02:24   #56
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http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/u...153938186.html

"the evidence shows beyond any doubt".

Strong words. Can't wait to see it.
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Old 11-Oct-2012, 07:19   #57
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Seems to be all in here:

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org

Starts on page 16 of this:


http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net...edDecision.pdf
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Old 11-Oct-2012, 09:27   #58
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http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/u...153938186.html

"the evidence shows beyond any doubt".

Strong words. Can't wait to see it.
I thought that was the issue, There is no evidence, just the testimony of former team-mates. But like the Guinness, they are not bitter!
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Old 11-Oct-2012, 10:39   #59
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If it was just the guys who have already been done for doping it would be suspect .

But to have guys like Hincapie, Zabriskie, Vande Velde and Leipheimer come it with all the evidence they have is pretty damning. Take into account all payments which seem to have been made, the other stuff like the post dated prescription and all the other stuff ... It's damning
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Old 11-Oct-2012, 11:05   #60
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They certainly seem to be banking on quantity over quality.
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