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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:06   #1
CooK1E
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Power Corrupts ?!

After having a few years of nice gaming, ive talked to a few admins and most of the all seemed to be very nice ppl, who in general took thier power and the status as a very serious thing - that is untill i met the jolt sof2 admins

btw before i start this isnt aimed at flaming jolt, or even the admins, i would just like to show how power corrupts and how the internet has possibly made us into a load of power hungry children......so here goes:

After having a nice friendly game with everyone on the public jolt server, we were happily playing when someone decided to annoy someone using the considered n00b weapon. Comments by a friend (who we will name X) were made that i admit shouldnt have been made X: "ffs lose the noob usas", someone else pipes up, "please stfu NOW" the reply to this was X: "stfu you noob". To anyone that wasnt in the kno this was an admin, the admin then proceedes to tall X to stfu, and then hands out a perm ban, with no warning or reason.......

After being rather annoyed about this (and other things, going on in my life atm) we proceded to quiz the admin on the server, and were told to (paraphrased) "Sod off, im trusted and can do what i like, i can hand out bans where i see fit and no i dont need to give a reason" This rather annoyed me, so i decided to leave it for a day to pass.

I enter the sof.jot irc room to confront the admin on his actions and just what the ban was for (ive decided to post the whole convo, as at least then u can see what i said and then comment if i was being a total idiot or not) on entering im confronted with the same admin kicking a whole clan for apparantly spamming, with the reason —› kick: (****) was kicked by (*****) (Bye tosser «Shitlisted»)

Cue a slighly annoyed me start my convo

(20:04:07) (CooK1E) Well ****, for someone that has come from one of the top gaming clans, over the last few days u have totally proved that u are the greatest power abuser that jolt could have employed
(20:04:31) (@****) whys that?
(20:05:12) (CooK1E) your actions in the server yesterday were enough to put anyone of gaming for life, with your total lack of tact and people skills
(20:05:49) (@****) not really
(20:05:50) (CooK1E) and the banning of all ***** from this channel just proves that having all this power seems to give u some sort of rush
(20:06:06) (@****) ****** are banned for advertising
(20:06:10) (CooK1E) i hope u enjoy this cause u wont have many friends after the way you treat ppl
(20:06:20) (@****) erm you have friends?
(20:06:23) (CooK1E) (19:17:34) —› kick: (****) was kicked by (*****) (Bye tosser «Shitlisted»)
(20:06:35) (@****) he was spamming?
(20:06:3 8 ) (@****) and advertsing?
(20:06:41) (CooK1E) yeah bye tosser really states a ban for spamming doesnt it
(20:06:48 ) (CooK1E) how adult of u
(20:06:54) (@****) oh piss off
(20:06:55) (@****) wanker
(20:07:17) (CooK1E) why dont u ban me aswell, looks like someone cant even take a bit of critisism
(20:07:24) (CooK1E) have to resort to swearing
(20:07:36) (@****) i dont have to explain my actions to you of all ppl
(20:08:31) (CooK1E) im not asking u too, im just making u look at your actions to maybe see that u are a acting like a child in a play ground, and bringing jolts name down with you
(20:08:43) —› mode: (#****#) sets (+b *!*[email protected]***********)
(20:08:43) —› this (*!*[email protected]*******) ban affects (CooK1E)
(20:08:43) —› kick: (CooK1E) was kicked by (#****#) (Every house needs a cleaning every so often)

(kick from head admin #****#)

From someone else in the channel:

[21:08:21] <@#****#> foff
[21:08:24] <@*****> lol
[21:08:30] <@#****#> ok off again ;p
[21:08:33] <@****> tra
[21:09:00] <@#****#> ban him off servers if u see him ****
[21:09:08] <@****> saw him today


so now i have a lifetime ban from jolt public servers, along with a ban from irc, all because i was willin to confront an admin decision

If u think ive overstepped the mark, or just totally blown this all out of proportion then please say so and remove this post. i just wanted the communitys reaction on this.......

Thanks
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:12   #2
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Shafted tbh.
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:16   #3
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Yes they were being cunts. Sorry not to give an informed debate but its getting slightly depression the amount of threads like this that are appearing on the trickery forums about various gsp's.
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:23   #4
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Jolt are well known for having poor admins. More than that though, they have a very poor system for keeping admins in check. Those in more senior positions seem as bad if not worse. The actual paid staff of Jolt don't seem to care either. I sent an email about one of their volunteers being abusive to me after I asked about how to get Jolt ADSL cos he got the total wrong end of the stick.

Power definately corrupts, especially on the internet where people are more free to act like tossers. Nothing will ever be done about Jolt regardless of how we complain so its best just to leave them to it. It is sad though that all the best GSP's go under and yet the ones run by kids who treat people like crap seem to last forever.
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:36   #5
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Surely if there admins are being complete tossers then Jolt should be giving them the heave-ho especially now when its seems like game sites are keeling over every day
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:39   #6
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Re: Power Corrupts ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CooKiEkiLLeR
so now i have a lifetime ban from jolt public servers, along with a ban from irc, all because i was willin to confront an admin decision
Well, I can't be assed to read all that, but the Admins decission is final, surely you know that.
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:43   #7
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not when its jolt, they dont give a crap what you do, they ban without any warning and dont set it for any time, just when they can be bothered to lift it. ;/
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:47   #8
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I think you need to read it, Longbow

Sure an admin's decision is final, but he's trying to get across the reason for the ban (ie, there wasn't one) which in my opinion wasn't deserved.

People skills are essential as an admin, if you don't have them, then you shouldn't be an admin, and likewise should be able to maturely answer questions from others.

I've always felt admins should set an example. Jolt should adhere to that too (seeing as I've heard the some of TFC ones don't)
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:53   #9
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jolt are full of wankers bout as simple as that
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 22:58   #10
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didn't you know jolt admins have a nice reputation for being a bunch of bells?
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 23:04   #11
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Well, I just know 1 of the head admins for Jolt.

He's a good guy. But I dunno bout the rest of them.
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 23:09   #12
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Admins are only "bells" if you a: cheat b: abuse someone on the server or c: break another rule imposed by the GSP. Simle as.
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 23:10   #13
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or d: be a jolt admin
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 23:19   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbow
Well, I just know 1 of the head admins for Jolt.

He's a good guy. But I dunno bout the rest of them.
Its easy to be a nice person when there isn't any confrontation. You see the true side of people when they are in a situation like the one in the first post. Not saying your mate isn't a good guy, I'm sure there must be at least a few good guys in Jolt somewhere.

I think half the problem at Jolt though is that nobody ever seems to be disciplined for being a terrible admin or treating people like crap. So they just do what they want half the time and when they are confronted about it everyone closes ranks and supports the admin over the person complaining. Thing is, you'll get away with it 99 times out of 100 because its a fact that most gamers who get into trouble with admins are spankers who deserve it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBW
Admins are only "bells" if you a: cheat b: abuse someone on the server or c: break another rule imposed by the GSP. Simle as.
Or if they think you cheat. Look at the time A Small Puppy was banned by Jolt along with 2 other by admins. They banned them for cheating although they had no evidence, went on for days, they wouldn't even show the people the evidence they were banned on, giving a variety of excuses the most ridiculous being demo's are IPR of Jolt. In the end the head admin admitted they weren't cheating but the bans stayed in place because they had complained about it.

Jolt admins act the way they do because 99/100 they get away with it. Nothing we're ever going to do to stop it except just not to play there.
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 23:32   #15
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Re: Power Corrupts ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbow
Quote:
Originally Posted by CooKiEkiLLeR
so now i have a lifetime ban from jolt public servers, along with a ban from irc, all because i was willin to confront an admin decision
Well, I can't be assed to read all that, but the Admins decission is final, surely you know that.
i wasnt disputing that, and if u read the whole lot i wasting trying to get whatever ban lifted (even if i agree with it or not) i was just asking for the communitys view

Anyways thanks for ya replys, at least i dont feel like i was totally in the wrong there, hopefully my ban might be lifted, but tbh i dont care, there are plently of other places to play where i dont have to put up with rude admins
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 23:48   #16
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in several years i have yet to come across a jolt admin who can act with moderation and common sense.

I'm loath to tar them so generally .. but sadly in their case the admins are all wankers
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 23:50   #17
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[quote="Nor"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbow
Well, I just know 1 of the head admins for Jolt.

He's a good guy. But I dunno bout the rest of them.

Not saying your mate isn't a good guy
Maby it wasent a guy but a girl
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Old 06-Jan-2004, 23:52   #18
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The thing is, when someone is given a small amount of power, they like to use it. If a person gives them a reason to use this power you can usually bet your life they will make the most of it.
This is not (imho) a fault of the admin, but a fault of the GSP or the CL. For example, ideally admins would be paid a wage and therefore monitored and measured accordingly, like anyone who works for a living. You don't do your job correctly, you don't get paid. In the instance of GSP admins, they are of course unpaid and therefore there is little anyone can do to curb thier enthusiasm when it comes to dishing out the bans etc.
Admins should be given NO power except for the power to report incedents to the CL or Head Admin. That way only 1 person makes the decision and he/she would be accountable.
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 00:01   #19
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i think power corrupts when you don't have to be accountable for it.

Back in the good old days of admining BY, I knew i was accountable to the Head Admin, DCL, CL, Velvet, Drilla et al.

On becoming the Head Admin, I knew I'd be accountable for not dealing with admins who were out of line and they knew I'd be on to them if they took the piss.

If no-one else gives a toss what have they got to lose?
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 00:31   #20
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"Head Admin, DCL, CL, Velvet, Drilla et al"

Thats usually the problem, too many chiefs....
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 00:33   #21
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Sid was an ownage head admin very swift in chasing up bad admins rareity on by that....common place on jolt still or non existant most of the time
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 00:46   #22
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Ah the Jolt admins, that old chestnut.

Does the "power of rcon" really corrupt the average admin?

The Jolt service has always had a semi-bad reputation among the main uk gaming communities, this isn't because of their website, their servers or even their community, on a whole these things are perfectly fine. The problem, as the majority of us all know, is their admins.

The thing you have to remember about admins ( and this rule is easy to forget even if you have been one ) is that the view of the situation from a public stance is COMPLETELY different from the view taken by an admin.

To better demonstrate my point here's a partial log ( removed all non-revelant discussion ) of #ogh and #cs.jolt.

> #ogh
(D33) heh
(D33) some guy in #jolt complained about being banned but got no warning so didn't know what for
(D33) they told him to goto the jolt cs admin chan, so i followed him in
(D33) forgot all about it till now, just read up
(D33) ..16:23.. <@Tycow> its not cheating you're banned for
(D33) ..16:23.. <Catch^> what is it?
(D33) ..16:24.. <@Gunnery> racisim
(D33) ..16:24.. <Catch^> wtf?
(D33) ..16:24.. <Catch^> oh
(D33) ..16:24.. <Catch^> My name is jewbot but I am jewish
(D33) ..16:24.. <Catch^> why is that racist
(D33) gonna read more now, should be an interesting turnout
(D33) heh
(D33) the admin handled it well
(D33) (4:24pm) ** Tycow steps back from this one
(D33) ……… mode/#cs.jolt … (-o Tycow) … by … Tycow
(D33) lol
(D33) ..16:26.. <Catch^> no problem
(D33) ..16:26.. <Catch^> I'm not racist tho
(D33) ..16:29.. <@ElDude> What ya get for christmas then? Retail CS?
(D33) ..16:32.. <@ElDude> Thought Jewish people didn't celebrate christmas
(D33) ..16:32.. <Catch^> lol
(D33) ..16:33.. <Catch^> I mean I'm from Wales, I do Welsh things
(D33) ..16:33.. <Catch^> + I dont live with my family I#m adult
(D33) ..16:38.. <@Gunnery> Catch
(D33) ..16:38.. <Catch^> aye
(D33) ..16:39.. <@Gunnery> sorry but after a few admins reviewing your ban we have decided it will stay
(D33) ..16:39.. <Catch^> rofl
(D33) ..16:39.. <Catch^> banned for a jewish name, thats you being racist not me
(D33) ..16:39.. <@Gunnery> nah thats not accurate
..17:21.. <@Pod> i dont thinkthe name is rascist
..17:21.. <@phantom> ditto
(D33) yeah well, you know how the world is atm :/

> #cs.jolt ( in steps teh Pod )
……… join … Pod … ([email protected]^Pod^.users.quakenet.org) … 5:21pm ………
..17:22.. <Pod> hi. i have a question, if my name was "christianbot" would i be banned for a rascist name?
……… signoff … [jpf]god … (Signed off) … 5:22pm ………
..17:23.. <Tycow> ho ho ho, we got a professional comedian in our midst
..17:23.. <blito> no, your name could be christian
..17:23.. <Pod> so, "muslimbot"
..17:23.. <Pod> would that be rascist?
..17:23.. <Tycow> stop trying to cause trouble and grow up
..17:23.. <blito> depends on who was saying it and why
..17:24.. <Pod> im not causing trouble
..17:24.. <Pod> im asking because i want to know
..17:24.. <zebedeeeeee> thats not racist tho its religionist or smth?
..17:24.. <Pod> if "jewbot" can be deemed rascist i want to know what other words are
..17:24.. <Tycow> and let me guess, you have nothing to do with Catch who was in here earlier?
..17:24.. <blito> hmm
..17:24.. <blito> thing is
..17:24.. <Pod> i dont know him Tycow
..17:24.. <Pod> i simply know OF it
..17:24.. <blito> JEW is a very awkward thing
..17:24.. <blito> lots of ppl dont like jews and so persecution is a very real problem
..17:24.. <Tycow> people use jew as an insult
..17:24.. <Pod> same as "hindu" ?
..17:25.. <Pod> i use "arab" as an insult
..17:25.. <Pod> arabbot : would that be rascist?
..17:25.. <Tycow> well you're a twat then
……… mode/#cs.jolt … (+o Tycow) … by … Q
……… ban(#cs.jolt) … (*[email protected]^Pod^.users.quakenet.org) by Tycow
……… (kick/#cs.jolt) Pod by Tycow (Come back when you've finally learned not to be lame ‹3›)
……… mode/#cs.jolt … (-o Tycow) … by … Tycow
..17:25.. <zebedeeeeee> lol
..17:25.. <blito> ROFL
..17:25.. <zebedeeeeee> go ty!
..17:25.. <Tycow> :]
(5:26pm) ** zebedeeeeee gives tycow a winners golden shower
..17:26.. <sixbreasts> lol
..17:26.. <sixbreasts> pld
..17:26.. <Tycow> lol

> #cs.jolt ( in steps me - this is directly after )
(D33) ..17:24.. <Tycow> and let me guess, you have nothing to do with Catch who was in here earlier?
(D33) nah, we're just discussing it in #ogh
(D33) We felt you should of asked him to change his name in the future
(D33) problem would of been sorted
(D33) all happy
..17:27.. <Tycow> im not bothered about you discussing it
(D33) i know
..17:27.. <Tycow> thats your business
..17:27.. <Tycow> but if he wants to come in here and say that he uses the word arab as an insult, he can fuck right off :]
(D33) Don't you think saying jewbot isn't allowed and christianbot is kinda makes you hypocrites? :/
..17:28.. <sixbreasts> no , cos he didnt day he had those names to insult people
..17:28.. <zebedeeeeee> its like if people say "muslim" everone has a preset idea of what that means
..17:28.. <blito> difference is.. Christian is a potential name, i dont think Jew is
..17:28.. <sixbreasts> where as he said he used arab to insult
(D33) Right
..17:28.. <blito> Catholicbot would be a different matter entirely
..17:28.. <Tycow> people dont use "christian" as an insult. they use "jew". and funilly enough its the sort of people like that who use "arab" as an insult that do it
..17:29.. <zebedeeeeee> dont start about flavours of xtianity
..17:29.. <sixbreasts> and the end of the day pod was acting like a dick and got what he diserved
(D33) Aye but unfortunately jew is only an insult because idiots have turned it into one, otherwise it's a perfectly acceptable term :/
..17:30.. <Tycow> thats the problem, idiots use it
..17:30.. <blito> Jew has been an isnult for as long as there have jews i`m afraid to say
(D33) Anyway, I don't agree with the action taken but I can see your pov. It's a bit different dealing with the situation as an admin than it is watching it as a member of public
..17:30.. <blito> go back to ancient times, Jews have always been persecuted
..17:30.. <sixbreasts> why the fuck would soneone name themsleves jewbot if it WASNT to insult someone ?
..17:30.. <zebedeeeeee> everyone beats the shit outta buddhists
..17:30.. <blito> do they?
..17:30.. <blito> not sure i know any
..17:31.. <zebedeeeeee> historically ... the xtian religions are the ones that killed and persecuted the most tho i guess
..17:31.. <zebedeeeeee> thats why the pope gets to wear such a giant hat
..17:31.. <blito> lol
..17:32.. <Tycow> lol
..17:32.. <blito> not quite
..17:32.. <zebedeeeeee> so they sacked the place and took all the gold and made even gianter hats and filled rome with gold or something
(5:33pm) ** zebedeeeeee writes "the history of teh world by zebedee"
..17:33.. <blito> all to do with capturing and holding the all important jeruselam
..17:33.. <blito> later crusades were just about annoying turks tbh, but the earlier ones were to do wityh jerusalem
..17:33.. <Tycow> where we're going, we dont need roads
..17:33.. <Tycow> classic line
..17:33.. <blito> heheh
..17:34.. <blito> anyhow,
..17:34.. <zebedeeeeee> the russian orthodox churches are same ... the big domes ... its so their religious leaders can fit the hats in ... the "pope-o-dome" in vatican city must be huge
..17:34.. <blito> enough of that
..17:34.. <blito> rofl
(5:34pm) ** zebedeeeeee hides the rest of the mushrooms and pretends to be normal
..17:34.. <Tycow> wp D33, you've gone and started a religious/philosophical debate in a cs channel D:
(5:35pm) ** Tycow cries and runs off
..17:35.. <zebedeeeeee> lol yeah but im involved so it wasnt gonna stay serious
(D33)

So yeah, the Jolt admins can be a bit over the top with their bans, they do ban people for having a different viewpoint and it is rare to get them to listen to you but at the end of the day are they really all corrupt little children?

The answer is no. They simply lack training, set rules and mature head admins to keep the regular admins in check and well within the walls of reality.

Obviously OGH isn't a "massive" site at the moment but I've started digging more into the GSP scene ( not exactly the best time to do it, mind ) and now I'm interviewing staff / ex-staff of GSPs and so forth. When I get around to Jolt I'll be asking quite a few questions about their admin service and how the Jolt staff view it.

I'm hoping to get some interesting feedback.
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 00:51   #23
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I'd like to know why they physcially sign an NDA when agreeing to become an admin and mail it back to Jolt (part of it states they can't 'work' for another GSP for at least a year)

Please note: Work not volunteer - meaning a jolt admin can still admin in a volunteer status elsewhere.

Do Jolt have a public ban site? We know WP do, and some entries of those have been flagged already in previous threads.
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 01:45   #24
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meh, jolt. a wankstain on the douvet of game service provision. (c) 2004 pimpypoo
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 02:34   #25
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Well... I believe this makes... at least 4 different games in which I've heard major complaints about jolt admins... frankly I'm disgusted by the whole gsp and am unsuprised by the lack of community they have there. If I'd have acted even a fraction as badly as these guys when I adminned for byns I'd have been removed in the blink of an eye.

Personally I refuse to become a regular on any server in jolt, though I occasionally pass through them in random server migrations... but in those cases what do I care what happens, if it starts going pear shaped I'm onto another random before you can say 'Abuse of power'.
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 10:05   #26
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When BY was running to ban anyone from the UT servers you had to take evidence either screenshots or demos. In the case of blatant aimbots then the UT admins were trusted enough to ban the player after spectating him in the server.

A lot of the times us just accidently logging in as admin caused the botter to leave the server immediately.

With regards to dodgy names we would give 3 warnings then kick if they came back and still didnt change the name then we banned them. We also took screenshots of the console as evidence if required. The only people with dodgy names we banned immediately on sight were ones who repeatedly ignored us and wouldnt change name no matter what.

As for the attitude shown from the jolt admin in question it isnt acceptable at all. I have never spoken to someone in that manner as an admin and never will. If i was asked to explain why i banned someone i would and do it in a sensible manner.

Jolt have serious issues with there admins and the way they are going with unwarranted bans from irc, servers and the forums for some people they will get a reputation where no one will want to play there.

As how many of us would want to get banned from a server because someone fake nicked you and even if you have evidence to clear you the ban still isnt lifted? Not many but this is the way jolt do things for some games.

They seriously need to look at the admins they are using as they are not giving Jolt a good name. As when BY was running the admins made damn sure we represented BY in a manner which didnt give BY a bad name.

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Old 07-Jan-2004, 12:44   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D33
--snip-- *stuff* --snip--
Well - there you have the perfect example why political correctness is the biggest load of shite since peanut butter spread; All the idiots jump on the bandwagon where word xyz is disallowed (but obviously they don't *understand* the words and can't distinguish between an insult and the normal usage any more [if they ever could - being morons]), and you now have a whole category of people who discriminate on people who use certain words (gj p.c. - you've created more random hate and nastiness).
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 18:59   #28
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jolt admins obviously know a whole lot about religion aswell!

I liked this bit.......

Quote:
<sixbreasts> why the **** would soneone name themsleves jewbot if it WASNT to insult someone ?
--- Because he was jewish.

It seems to me that everytime I look on the servers there is a new complaint about the actions of the jolt admins. I never used to post on the BY forums but, I did occasionaly read them, and never saw AS MUCH as i do about Jolt.
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 19:06   #29
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As someone posted in #trickery they've recently advertised for a full time community manager. If only velvet could do it and turn their shitty outfit into one of the best
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Old 07-Jan-2004, 19:06   #30
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Thats because us volunteer admins on BY had strict rules we had to follow when we were asked to be an admin and also went through a trial period. So we ended up with a good bunch of dedicated admins who cared about the game they played and wanted to make sure everyone had fun.

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