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Old 02-Mar-2017, 13:56   #151
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They're human beings not machines. They're not limited by the money piled into them but physiology and mental strength.

I don't imagine the drugs are prohibitively expensive for any elite athlete.
Yeah I think for the sake of this conversation you can assume I was talking about letting an existing level playing field of world-class athletes off the leash drugs wise rather than pulling some random off the street and pumping him full of a million quid in the hopes that he runs faster than anyone else.

Also - if it were the case that the human factor was the ultimate decider then this thread wouldn't exist would it.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 14:48   #152
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Right, from what I can tell a lot of drugs basically just allow you to train harder and for longer. Lance Armstrong is still an unbelievable athlete, he's just an awful cheat.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 15:04   #153
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Right, from what I can tell a lot of drugs basically just allow you to train harder and for longer. Lance Armstrong is still an unbelievable athlete, he's just an awful cheat.
Well the great athlete part is debatable due to the massive volume of drugs!
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 15:26   #154
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Nah, I really think the drugs just let him (and everyone else taking them) train even harder. Was really just making the point that the human factors still matter.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 15:34   #155
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Suggest 'desire to win above all else' is higher than merely 'desire to win'. The latter understandable, the former whilst also understandable should also be unconscionable. But isn't. Therefore, a rotten cheat.

Imagine the former also grows from the latter, particularly if training hard and drug free doesn't get you close to the top guys... and it's clear they are and not being caught. So it's kind of forced on them if they want to continue in their chosen career... this is what needs to be clamped down on.

Can't tell if this is merely an attack of the blinding obvious.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 15:41   #156
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I feel for all the athletes who are denied their moment in the sun by cheats subsequently disqualified years later. There's an awful interview with a British woman who lost funding after missing out to a drugs cheat, and saw her career stagnate / decline thereafter.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 16:03   #157
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Similarly, even if Wiggins is clean noone is going to assume that he is innocent and this is just a doctor's fuckup, because of other people's past misdeeds.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 16:06   #158
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And Mo Farah.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 16:11   #159
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I'd argue that if cycling had been hitherto clean, then he might have got the benefit of the doubt. Because doping is endemic, he naturally will have a tough sell to prove himself clean - in addition should have perhaps known this and ensured that the professional doctor did take backups of the test so that if (when?) his laptop was stolen, we wouldn't have this cloud of doubt.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 16:26   #160
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The fact that professional athletes pay for private doctors to cure their "illnesses" with performance enhancers legally is in of itself super dodgy
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 16:53   #161
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And Mo Farah.
His coach is clearly bent and it's amazing that Farah hasn't tried to distance himself from him.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 17:01   #162
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Yeah, I suspect it's bad judgement caused by a misplaced sense of loyalty.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 17:38   #163
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or the other reason
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 17:46   #164
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Yeah, I have a lingering doubt that Farah, Radcliffe and Holmes were all at it, if only for the reason that they won in an era when so many others look dodgy.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 18:07   #165
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Next you'll be suggesting that Flo Jo and her records might be suss too
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 18:13   #166
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I suspect that, on a similar basis to technology being indistinguishable from magic to the primitive, that if we had complete details of their dietary, medicinal and technical training routines the whole lot of them would look like utter cheats. It's probably a total cocktail of borderline bullshit across all sports.
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Old 02-Mar-2017, 19:27   #167
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ladbrokes would do odds on the number of heart attacks and other fatalities
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Old 03-Mar-2017, 21:37   #168
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It's got to be pretty unlikely any of the worlds best in athletic events since the decades after the introducing of steroids/HGH etc have been clean.

And if they are clean then performance enhancing drugs can't make a massive difference because they'd have to be, naturally, a lot better than a group of other people who are some of the best in the world and juicing.

Also once the money in any sport gets big enough the chances of people juicing (I'm guessing) goes up drastically because the drugs testing likely gets worse because organisations can't afford the negative publicity (or loss of their star athletes) to failed drugs tests so they probably work with the athletes to help them circumvent it.
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Old 03-Mar-2017, 22:34   #169
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Apparently tennis is utterly riddled with it and could be the next thing to explode like cycling did.
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Old 08-Mar-2017, 13:29   #170
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Marina Hyde at her brilliant best

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...P=share_btn_tw
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Old 08-Mar-2017, 13:43   #171
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Wonderfully acerbic. She alluded to a foreign perspective in her final paragraph there, does anyone have anything indicative? It'd be interesting to know what it is, the google news feed doesn't have much.
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Old 08-Mar-2017, 13:58   #172
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Glad she's not a member of the judiciary.
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Old 08-Mar-2017, 14:32   #173
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Wonderfully acerbic. She alluded to a foreign perspective in her final paragraph there, does anyone have anything indicative? It'd be interesting to know what it is, the google news feed doesn't have much.
She might be acerbic , but beyond assuming guilt and having a moan I don't get any point to that article!

The foreign reference is simply the regurgitating of whatever things have been printed in Euro papers over the past few years, there's been a few in France mainly that have alluded that because SKY win they must be up to something.
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Old 13-Dec-2017, 08:38   #174
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Froome failed a test.
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Old 13-Dec-2017, 08:52   #175
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I suspect a doctor might have lost his records too
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Old 13-Dec-2017, 09:19   #176
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I suspect a doctor might have lost his records too
As will Froome.

God knows why anyone bothers with this "sport" any more.
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Old 13-Dec-2017, 10:25   #177
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God knows why anyone bothers with this "sport" any more.
God knows why anyone bothered with it ever.
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Old 13-Dec-2017, 21:41   #178
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We should be proud of our supreme athletes, all competing so well whilst suffering from chronic asthma. Well done to them I say.
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Old 13-Dec-2017, 22:02   #179
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The limit is 1600 micrograms of Salbutamol in a 24-hour period, at 100ug per dose, that's 16 doses per day. At that rate, you'd go through one Ventolin inhaler every 12.5 days (each one contains 200 doses). NHS guidelines currently suggest that a rate of one inhaler per month indicates unmanaged asthma. I find it hard to believe that an athlete of that calibre was allowed to have a chronic condition so badly managed. That and the fact that, if so, his asthma must have been an impediment to training and competing.
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Old 13-Dec-2017, 22:17   #180
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Indeed. I was chronic asthmatic until age 14 , hospitalised ever 3/4 months, and I didn’t get through more than one ventalin a month.. despite continued physiotherapy my lung capacity is only 66% of normal. I find it very hard to believe that they are really asthmatics.
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