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Old 27-Jun-2012, 06:55   #31
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Originally Posted by Minty View Post
Yeah the bits about how slavery is absolutely fine are great. I especially enjoyed the bits where it explicitly states that its OK to sell your teenage daughter into slavery and where it tells you how much youre allowed to beat your slaves (its a lot btw). Im also a fan of the passages that tell you to kill homosexuals and where God not only condones Genocide but actually commands it.


There are plenty of books out there with the qualities you listed, most of them wont have any references to genocide, rape, murder and slavery.
I'm well aware of all that, the point stands though.. People in the past were ignorant fucks, we're looking back with hindsight. There is some good shit in there, mixed in with the bad, doesn't make the whole thing uninteresting or unenlightening though as long as you have the intelligence to filter it..

Not that I borther personally. I'm not a fan and I don't read it, I just try to keep a balanced view on it.

P.S. I don't believe in God/Gods/Ghosts/Pixies (apart from the band)/Spirits/Whatever unprovable mumbojumbo

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Old 27-Jun-2012, 07:57   #32
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Originally Posted by DEV^S View Post
i guess we are focusing solely on the bible. if a human being does not have the intellect to realise that those things are wrong. 10 commandments, theres a good list for you.
How is it a good list? It's the most hypocritical load of bullshit ever written?! Apart from stealing, murder and adultery, which appear quite a way down the list, I might add!
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 09:34   #33
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Yeah the bits about how slavery is absolutely fine are great. I especially enjoyed the bits where it explicitly states that its OK to sell your teenage daughter into slavery and where it tells you how much youre allowed to beat your slaves (its a lot btw). Im also a fan of the passages that tell you to kill homosexuals and where God not only condones Genocide but actually commands it.
Problem is though that rational, sane people like us (well, some of us) rightly have a major problem with that kind of behaviour - some fuck heads don't and think it's perfectly ok - even more OK as their religion says its OK so that makes it OK.

As we all know there are some righteous sick fucks in the world and unfortunately religion is seen by many of them as a license to carry out acts that they should be thrown into prison for (capital punishment too easy for them).
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 10:08   #34
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Originally Posted by DEV^S View Post
i guess we are focusing solely on the bible. if a human being does not have the intellect to realise that those things are wrong. 10 commandments, theres a good list for you.
Well, lets examine that list:

1. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me - Basically, believe in God or burn in hell forever. What a pleasant chap! Oh and you have to believe in the right God as well, so if you were born in a non-Christian country, its a red hot poker up the arse for you!

2.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images - You could probably roll this into the first commandment quite easily. Its just as much bullshit.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of thy Lord God in vain - Again, this could very easily be rolled into the first commandment. As far as Im concerned, this is probably a very minor offence.

4.Remember the Sabbath day - Again, roll it into the first commandment. So God rested on the 7th day after creating everything out of order. There are plenty of comedians that do routines on this, so I wont bother doing my own. Check Ricky Gervais in "Animals".

5. Honour thy Mother and thy Father - Sorry but not all parents deserve to be respected. (Not talking about mine btw, mine are great). I know somebody that was taken into care as a child because his Mother was more interested in buying drugs than food. Should she be honoured and respected?

6. Thou shalt not kill - Fine.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery - Ok so cheating on the missus isnt exactly the nicest thing in the world, but to put it on the same list as murder? Bit much tbh.

8. Thou shalt not steal - Im fine with this in theory, but what if Im starving to death and have no money? Does God just want me to die, rather than steal small amounts of food from those that can afford it?

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness - Dont lie in other words. Means Christians have to stop telling their children that theres an invisible man that lives in the sky and gets very angry when they masturbate.

10. Thou shalt not covet - Why? Doesnt coveting something that somebody else has make you want to work harder to match them, or better them?


So I make it 2 out of 10 on that list that are worthwhile. Where are the commandments against rape, paedophilia, kidnap, arson, prostitution (Which Im fine with btw, however Christians dont seem to be), racism, sexism, drug abuse, etc.

Im fine with people accepting religion in their lives. They can use it for their social circles and create whatever rules for their lives that they like. I have no problem with any of that, but dont reference the bible as a book full of good, moral lessons and teachings because it really fucking isnt.
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 12:30   #35
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Originally Posted by Minty View Post
Validity Validitus...

Im fine with people accepting religion in their lives. They can use it for their social circles and create whatever rules for their lives that they like. I have no problem with any of that, but dont reference the bible as a book full of good, moral lessons and teachings because it really fucking isnt.
^^ what minty said, no issue with people believing in their good book or scroll of choice if it makes them feel happier or more secure, it is not a reason to try to control other's lives and behaviour or in the case of some religions to oppress women or go as far as violence or discrimination against others.

jesus died for my sins, no, the 'good book' states he died but that everything is god's divine plan so that makes god a bad dad, go tell child services, not me.



if someone needs that writing down for them, they are a mouth-breathing eejit
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 14:23   #36
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But way back when, (im 43 now) I was 14-15 i was very much a Fully flogged Altar boy etc......
It's ok, you can tell us all about it
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 15:06   #37
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that list doesnt priorities one over the other. and as I said, needs to be brought up to modern times. If your mother has taken drugs and what not, you still can be respectful. You dont have to bow down to her for what she is done. A lot of it comes down to interpretation too...honour "the quality of knowing and doing what is morally right". Slapped on one cheek, turn the other, dont have to get pay back or anything.

a point about interpretation... you say "1. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me - Basically, believe in God or burn in hell forever. What a pleasant chap! Oh and you have to believe in the right God as well, so if you were born in a non-Christian country, its a red hot poker up the arse for you!". I see it as do not worship anything other than God. This is on the lines of anything else wont be on the right path and maybe be "satanic".

Dont say gods name in vain - dont blame him for things that happen in your life.
Dont cheat on your wife - it doesnt say go cheat on your wife instead of murdering, dont do neither. They arent related.
no lieing is pretty obvious, but yet you like to question this.
Thou shalt not covet - mostly we have impulses which are either animalistic or material related.

I wouldn't steal from someone elses food if I was starving as I have no right, nor can i take the right away from someone else. Maybe if I dont have the money, maybe I have to settle for a piece of bread, maybe I have to get a better profession, maybe I have to live a less luxurious material life.

At the end of the day, we aren't going to try prove Gods existance or not to one another, I was just saying that you can learn things too.
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 16:14   #38
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Originally Posted by Minty View Post
Well, lets examine that list:

1. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me - Basically, believe in God or burn in hell forever. What a pleasant chap! Oh and you have to believe in the right God as well, so if you were born in a non-Christian country, its a red hot poker up the arse for you!

2.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images - You could probably roll this into the first commandment quite easily. Its just as much bullshit.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of thy Lord God in vain - Again, this could very easily be rolled into the first commandment. As far as Im concerned, this is probably a very minor offence.

4.Remember the Sabbath day - Again, roll it into the first commandment. So God rested on the 7th day after creating everything out of order. There are plenty of comedians that do routines on this, so I wont bother doing my own. Check Ricky Gervais in "Animals".

5. Honour thy Mother and thy Father - Sorry but not all parents deserve to be respected. (Not talking about mine btw, mine are great). I know somebody that was taken into care as a child because his Mother was more interested in buying drugs than food. Should she be honoured and respected?

6. Thou shalt not kill - Fine.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery - Ok so cheating on the missus isnt exactly the nicest thing in the world, but to put it on the same list as murder? Bit much tbh.

8. Thou shalt not steal - Im fine with this in theory, but what if Im starving to death and have no money? Does God just want me to die, rather than steal small amounts of food from those that can afford it?

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness - Dont lie in other words. Means Christians have to stop telling their children that theres an invisible man that lives in the sky and gets very angry when they masturbate.

10. Thou shalt not covet - Why? Doesnt coveting something that somebody else has make you want to work harder to match them, or better them?


So I make it 2 out of 10 on that list that are worthwhile. Where are the commandments against rape, paedophilia, kidnap, arson, prostitution (Which Im fine with btw, however Christians dont seem to be), racism, sexism, drug abuse, etc.

Im fine with people accepting religion in their lives. They can use it for their social circles and create whatever rules for their lives that they like. I have no problem with any of that, but dont reference the bible as a book full of good, moral lessons and teachings because it really fucking isnt.

you know that theres technically 600+ commandments..
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 16:16   #39
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 17:05   #40
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I do actually question whether minty understands what covet means. If he does, then he wouldnt say that its ok. Ambition is completely different, but to match or better somebody for their brand new BMW X5 with two petrol tanks MAY be out of pride/ego and not for a sound reason.
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 18:37   #41
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 18:58   #42
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you know that theres technically 600+ commandments..
Actually I believe its in the mid 400s. However the discussion was about the 10 commandments being a good list of rules to live your life by. Theyre not and neither is the rest of the bible.
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 19:07   #43
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Bible Schmible as the Jews might say.
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Old 27-Jun-2012, 19:08   #44
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I should point out that I am currently within 1 metre of a bible (hotel room - put there by idiots). This is an exceptionally rare occurrence. Anybody need any quotes?
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Old 28-Jun-2012, 17:52   #45
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has the bible burst into flames?
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Old 29-Jun-2012, 12:04   #46
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Originally Posted by DEV^S View Post
that list doesnt priorities one over the other. and as I said, needs to be brought up to modern times. If your mother has taken drugs and what not, you still can be respectful. You dont have to bow down to her for what she is done. A lot of it comes down to interpretation too...honour "the quality of knowing and doing what is morally right". Slapped on one cheek, turn the other, dont have to get pay back or anything.
Being respectful and having respect for somebody can be very different. I am respectful of the fact that a stranger will want their own personal space and wouldnt like me standing too close, for example. I dont have any respect for that person though as I dont know them. A person that has endangered their childs life for their own selfish gains is not deserving of respect, but I can be respectful towards them.


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Originally Posted by DEV^S View Post
a point about interpretation... you say "1. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me - Basically, believe in God or burn in hell forever. What a pleasant chap! Oh and you have to believe in the right God as well, so if you were born in a non-Christian country, its a red hot poker up the arse for you!". I see it as do not worship anything other than God. This is on the lines of anything else wont be on the right path and maybe be "satanic".
Interpret it any way you like, but the bible is pretty clear on the subject.

"For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." Exodus 34:14

As I say I have no problem with Christianity, as long as that Christianity does not intrude on my life or the lives of others (the blocking of gay marriage by religious leaders for example), but do not quote the bible as a source of good, moral teachings. It isnt.

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Dont say gods name in vain - dont blame him for things that happen in your life. - http://carm.org/exodus-207-do-not-take-name-lord-vain
Dont cheat on your wife - it doesnt say go cheat on your wife instead of murdering, dont do neither. They arent related. - I never said they were.
no lieing is pretty obvious, but yet you like to question this. - Yes I do. Sometimes little white lies can be beneficial to both parties. Not everything is black and white, there can be grey areas.
Thou shalt not covet - mostly we have impulses which are either animalistic or material related. - So what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEV^S View Post
I wouldn't steal from someone elses food if I was starving as I have no right, nor can i take the right away from someone else. Maybe if I dont have the money, maybe I have to settle for a piece of bread, maybe I have to get a better profession, maybe I have to live a less luxurious material life.
Where are you getting the bread from? You have no money. Im not arguing that somebody burgling a house is a shithead, but I am saying that there can sometimes be valid reasons for small thefts.

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Originally Posted by DEV^S View Post
At the end of the day, we aren't going to try prove Gods existance or not to one another, I was just saying that you can learn things too.
Im not trying to disprove the existence of God, Im merely saying that the bible is not a source of good, moral teachings. There is some good in it, I will grant you that, but there is also a lot of heinous, evil shit and its that heinous, evil shit that made me start questioning my own faith. Yes, I was brought up a christian and went both a Christian primary and secondary school, which included forced mass attendance and RE lessons.
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Old 29-Jun-2012, 15:31   #47
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I never claimed the bible was from start to end all good. Bear in mind there is the possibility it has been corrupted too and changed. I said there are some good moral teachings, and someone start saying the negatives instead.

I dont personally think burgling is ok on any "valid" terms at all.
you questioned murder and cheating on wife being on same list isnt right. dont understand why you would bring it up.
The problem of being covet is that you do it on animalistic/material reasoning. Its a negative point within a human. Its about trying to get one over, trying to look better than the other person. bring the other person down. Some people try to better themselves, and something negative like this doesnt help.
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Old 29-Jun-2012, 15:39   #48
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I bet Spot's Bedtime Storybook has some good morals in it too. What's your point?
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Old 29-Jun-2012, 18:04   #49
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this isnt fixing your excel problems.
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Old 29-Jun-2012, 19:18   #50
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this isnt fixing your excel problems.
they are a act of god obviously
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