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Old 09-Feb-2018, 15:57   #211
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What was it about Johnson and Soubry’s position that you felt wasn’t quite defensive enough of the NHS?
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 15:58   #212
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Their inability to defend it They just sat there saying bugger all. Soubry going on about how she can get a Dr appointment the same day but failing to mention that's because she has private healthcare didn't help.
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 16:00   #213
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She did make the very good point that you can get same-day appointments (I can) depending on where you live, but it was left to the American to point out how unfair that was.
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 16:02   #214
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Most people can I think if you ring 1st thing or late in the day and hope for a cancelled appointment, or are willing to see a random Dr for 30 seconds, but people want to see "their" Dr, and for a decent amount of time.
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 16:02   #215
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To be fair to the BBC you know it's doing something right when both the left and the right constantly accuse it of bias.
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 16:03   #216
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Do you not think that was a little bit lopsided?
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 16:06   #217
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I think the current dogmatic defence of the NHS is a cross party position so on this point I believe it's fairly moot who was sat there as they'd have said the same thing, but in general no I don't believe it was particularly one sided nor is the obsession for constant balance in every singular debate a good thing.

I also find Andrew Neil fairly excellent at playing devil's advocate with whomever he has sat next to him, whatever their political persuasions. So I definitely disagree with him being written off as a pure Tory!
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 16:25   #218
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Yeah, it didn’t particularly bother me. The left’s obsession with tarring it’s own party as never quite pure enough isn’t particularly healthy either.
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 16:36   #219
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Although no-one's quite Brexit enough (read, mad enough) for some on the right...
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Old 09-Feb-2018, 21:44   #220
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Ban old people from drs surgeries between the hours of 9-5 and frankly all the issues in this country disappear including Brexit if the mortality rate increases. Vote me.
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Old 10-Feb-2018, 16:35   #221
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43014861

That’s just ridiculous
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Old 10-Feb-2018, 22:19   #222
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Nah, Orange.

Its quite simple, its called theft. Labour are now proposing simply removing property from business and providing gilts as compensation. Kind of like someone stealing your TV, but leaving a note promising to pay you 500 back, over time, eventually, maybe.
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Old 10-Feb-2018, 22:34   #223
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Nah, Orange.

Its quite simple, its called theft. Labour are now proposing simply removing property from business and providing gilts as compensation. Kind of like someone stealing your TV, but leaving a note promising to pay you 500 back, over time, eventually, maybe.
Like Thatcher stole it all from public ownership in the first place.
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Old 11-Feb-2018, 01:08   #224
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Oh for the love of God.
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Old 11-Feb-2018, 13:29   #225
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Like Thatcher stole it all from public ownership in the first place.
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Old 12-Feb-2018, 11:08   #226
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Id love to understand what problems nationalisation is intended to solve. The only instances it sort of makes sense is for scale infrastructure changes, which at the moment mostly fall into national rail anyway.
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Old 12-Feb-2018, 11:52   #227
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43024995

March 2017: “We’re now entering the final few days available to the political parties here in Northern Ireland to form an executive… But time is short.”
April 2017: Deadline extended. “The parties will have a final opportunity after Easter to reach agreement.”
June 2017: Deadline passes; “a resolution can be found”.
July 2017: “Time is short... This hiatus cannot simply continue for much longer.”
August 2017: “Urgent progress is required.”
September 2017: “The situation simply is not sustainable.”
October 2017: “Time is running out.”
November 2017: Deadline for budget agreement passes.
January 2018: “One last opportunity to reach agreement remains.”

Definitely going to happen this time. To be fair they look vaguely serious this time.
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Old 12-Feb-2018, 12:06   #228
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Has Brokenshire's replacement made any difference yet?
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Old 12-Feb-2018, 12:11   #229
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I think it’ll happen this time (famous last words), but hard to imagine Brady has much to do with it in the space of a couple of months.
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Old 12-Feb-2018, 12:16   #230
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Bradley even!
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 10:37   #231
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Nah, Orange.

Its quite simple, its called theft. Labour are now proposing simply removing property from business and providing gilts as compensation. Kind of like someone stealing your TV, but leaving a note promising to pay you 500 back, over time, eventually, maybe.
As I read it, it's not theft, it's doing it the obvious way, pay cash (or an almost-cash-like instrument, a government bond) for the shares. Except John Mcdonnell randomly claims this doesn't cost the exchequer money.
It would be compulsory purchase.

Yes, if these companies continue to generate the money they do now, and it is used to pay off the debt on the company, then this is just a private equity deal, a wonderful capitalist enterprise.

It will stop being true if the revenues fall (maybe due to political interference in the running of the companies due to short-term bad headlines? Which is the whole point of the takeover). Or if the money goes into the general pool and is used to pay for current expenditure (Also pretty much guaranteed IMO, probably within the first term of a labour government).

Problems of not ring-fencing each company and it's debt (for management purposes, shareholders will demand that the debt is guaranteed by general government revenues) already happens at large private equity firms, so I don't think it would be unexpected to happen here.
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 10:56   #232
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so its paid for through general inflation which is nice and regressive

prices, revenues, service and cost all become a political football with all the delivery chaos that entails (just like the good old days)

all for clawing back a theoretical 3% or so of profit (after cost of cash)

The upsides would be?
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 11:03   #233
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Well for a start its obviously politically unacceptable for some rail franchises to be ran by EU operators owned by national governments , surely we have to claw those back to avoid EU meddling in our rail system. Its time we told those European tallywhackers to take a hike and bring the rail back to good old British government ownership like in the old days.
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 11:06   #234
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Problems of not ring-fencing each company and it's debt (for management purposes, shareholders will demand that the debt is guaranteed by general government revenues) already happens at large private equity firms, so I don't think it would be unexpected to happen here.
I’m not sure they will, although it’ll reduce the cost of borrowing if they provide a government parent guarantee. But the bigger point is that McDonnell seems to think anything that‘s paid for by issuing new government debt is free.
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 11:08   #235
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Well for a start its obviously politically unacceptable for some rail franchises to be ran by EU operators owned by national governments , surely we have to claw those back to avoid EU meddling in our rail system. Its time we told those European tallywhackers to take a hike and bring the rail back to good old British government ownership like in the old days.
I'm a big fan of foreign governments subsiding stuff for me
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 11:11   #236
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But not workforces.
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 11:24   #237
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I'm a big fan of foreign governments subsiding stuff for me
Have some faith in blighty! Why shouldnt our government be able to do a better job of it that these foreign state owned companies and be able to invest even more in our railways!
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 11:52   #238
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Our government can't spend Dutch, German or French money unfortunately unlike Poland
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 12:00   #239
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Of course it can.
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Old 14-Feb-2018, 13:23   #240
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-43055494

The Zuma takedown commences in slightly oblique fashion.
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