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Old 03-Sep-2004, 12:34   #1
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Russion School Seige is ending

ITV for the last hour or so have been reporting on the begining of the end of the seige. Russian special forces stormed the building this morning for reasons yet unknown (most actions like this happen as night). There are going to be casulties but any news on that is unknown. As of writing 10 people have died but I do not know if it includes the known 5 dead terrorists.

Most of the children as naked because when they asked for water the terrorists told them to strip, soaked their clothes in water and told them to suck the water out.

As a side note Andy McNab was giving a voice only report as was in Russia, I guess as an advisor.

The BBC report is here.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 12:39   #2
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i was watching the ch4 report. pretty horrible stuff, hope it wasn't the russians storming the shcool though some people were speculating it was down to the hostage takers blowing up bits of a wall and then a roof collapsed.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 12:44   #3
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I wouldn't say that it's ending. It's now more intense than it's ever been. Although most of the children have been released/escaped, the school is littered with explosive mines and possibly terrorists with suicide belts.

Reports are that they have fled to the south of the school but russian special forces are still in an intense shoot-out with what little remain.

There are atleast a few dozen injured including many dead and that figure is supposed to rise significantly.

The place still seems to be one of confusion and there's mixed reports on why the initial intervention took place. People believe that a few children escaped and the terrorits triggered off some mines. It was at this point the federal troops engaged the school.

BBC24 is now doing complete coverage.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 12:47   #4
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does anyone just feel a tiny bit creeped out by the whole media circus surrounding this? just feels like entertainment in the way they present it. suddenly people die and there are explosions followed by 3 out of the 4 main channels have total live coverage with guest opinions on the situation. Seems to be turning the whole thing into a spectacle, you know? its all the more cathartic because its live, real and happening to someone else.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 12:50   #5
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There's no difference from this incident than any other mate. It's the job of the media to keep the public aware.

Look at the Twin Towers coverage. The BBC completely cancelled a full days worth of programmes.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 12:55   #6
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Everything has media coverage now.

Part of it is you have to get your team there and get a report out as soon as you can and the other part is getting people to watch YOUR report over someone elses.

One way to do this is "expert advice".

So it starts to look like The Running Man gameshow.

At least they`re not giving prizes on phone/text-ins.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 12:57   #7
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Give it a few years..
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 12:58   #8
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does anyone just feel a tiny bit creeped out by the whole media circus surrounding this? just feels like entertainment in the way they present it.
I do feel pretty uneasy about this, to be honest, but not in a way that I can really put my finger on. Just doesn't seem....right?

[edit] All hostages out according to the BBC Latest News ticker [/edit]
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:02   #9
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I think the Russians have a rather unique way of handling these situations.

I don`t know why anyone bothers to try and terrorise Russia like this, they`re probably the least prone to it.

In a lot of ways, i think they`ve got it right.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:04   #10
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Yeah, I have to agree. They don't take any shit and good for them

Sometimes they're tactics can be questionable but they always seem to get the job done.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:08   #11
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the problem is that the terrorists were demanding the release of militants/warlords from chechnya, had this happened then thousands would die as a result, rather than tens of people involved in the siege, harsh i know, but they've taken a utilitarianist view - the greater good for the greater number of people.

after years of terrorism in russia anyway its not surprising that they've adopted such a hardline stance on these sorts of events
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:14   #12
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The Russians have always been tough, just look at their history. Was there any other real outcome to the situation, especially when dealing with people willing to die for their cause. Remember these people blew up two airlines last week as well as a suicide bomb on the Moscow(?) underground.

Concerning the media coverage - aren't these special circumstances because the hostages are children and not adults?
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:28   #13
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It seems to be that a bus/truck organised to enter the school and take out dead bodies precipitated an attempted escape attempt by a group of hostages. These came under fire from the terrorists who then detonated their mines which then caused the special forces to come in to save who ever was left alive.

The big cock up came when the Spetnatz had gone in, the local militia which was providing the cordon moved into aid/get a better look which allowed lots of parents to swarm in a sucidal attempt to rescue their kids and kill terrorists.

It also seems a sizable amount of the terrorists were in another part of the complex (probably to oversee the body transfer) and when things went tits up they legged it. They are holed up in a house and are being hemmed in whilst they bring up tanks..

Apparently a bunch of dads cornered a terrorist and are as we speak beating him to death, Spetnatz troops "attempted" to stop them. Good job dads!
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:38   #14
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Apparently a bunch of dads cornered a terrorist and are as we speak beating him to death, Spetnatz troops "attempted" to stop them. Good job dads!
It's nice that parents can get fully involved in education over there.

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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:39   #15
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the war in chechnya wasn't some war fought between good and evil. The russians, especially Putin, are guilty of war crimes as are the chechens and hardly say that one side are better than the other. Russian special forces have been systematically rounding up chechen men for years interrogating, torturing and killing them. This is a problem that Putin created when Yeltsin put him in charge because he favoured a strong arm response rather than giving autonomy to the Chechens. Its a horrible mess which has been made worse by war rather than sorting out the problems over the negotiating table. Why do you think that there were 40 young 20 -30 year old women resoting to suicde bombings and taking hostages in the theatre raid? Every one of them had a husband or son or family member killed in the war and this is yet another symptom of desperation as a direct result of repression. Incidentally when they pumped that theatre full of nerve gas killing over 100 hostages they also found every single hostage take shot dead after they stormed the building. Putin is not a nice man.

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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:43   #16
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Probably not, but I certainly respect him and his decisions.

The french treat terrorism in an identical manner on their own soil. Rush in, kill them all and accept the casualities as a necessary deterent to it being tried again
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:43   #17
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Didn't the Russians leave Chechnya alone for a few years and it turned into warzone as non muslims were forced out ?

I'll have to read up on it, I guess that means its a victory for the terrorists that I do.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:46   #18
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Forced out by kremlin sanctioned/supported/crowbarred hard left leaders I believe.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:47   #19
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what learning more about why these people are doing what they are doing? nah don't think so, learning why things like that happen is simply history.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:51   #20
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Its a very complex subject (from what experts have been explaining on TV) and goes back years. Apperently the current president Chechnya has been installed by Putin and then Putin told the people he won by 73% or something. I mean how fucked up is that? Sounds like the last 100 years never happened.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:55   #21
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Yeah they claimed something like an 85% turnout - which is interesting given that the few available polling stations that the BBC visited were empty for the duration - and many of the muslin camps had no stations at all.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 13:58   #22
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Forced out by kremlin sanctioned/supported/crowbarred hard left leaders I believe.
The kremlin supported the islam fundamentalists in murdering Russians in Chechnya ?
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 14:05   #23
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I admittedly know very little about the chechens situation, but what stopped them gaining independance from the ussr in the same way as the baltic states did? and why is putin so hell bent on them not getting it?

but anyway, I guess if they are going to continue their occupation and opression of chechnya then the hardline approach to situations like this thats being admired is the only one they can take.. doesn't make it good though. I suppose 20 years down the line we'll have another afghanistan.. used to fighting the russians and left with nothing after the eventually give up.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 14:07   #24
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The kremlin supported the islam fundamentalists in murdering Russians in Chechnya ?
Other way round. Sorry I misread your original post and assumed you were talking about the displacement of muslims.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 15:48   #25
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Moron because a massive amount of the population is Russian, Stalin moved them all in during the 30s and 40s.

Its like saying Northern Ireland should not be part of the UK because 30% (random amount) of the population want independence. Its just its a lot more violent than NI.

Admitedly the whole Muslim aspect want the initial cause of the drive for independence but it proved to be a massively lucractive source of exploitation by warlords and clerics etc. started gaining far too much power.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 18:19   #26
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Regardless of my feelings about the whole situation I have to say I have found the TV coverage of this very disturbing.

Having been out most of the day I missed all of the earlier news stories today on TV. I turned Sky News on at 5pm to see what the latest was and what had been happened throughout the day. Now i'm not especially a sensitive or easily offended person but I don't appreciate having to look at footage of children lying on the floor dead at 5pm with no warning. They showed at least 3 dead children and god knows how many of the seriously injured ones died shortly after. Is this kind of coverage really of 'public interest' or whatever its supposed to be.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 18:27   #27
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Haven't see that myself thank god t-b. Stuff that had tears in my eyes was all the kids running out in their underwear.

One of the ITV crews was closet to the 'action' and after some news filtered through they had on their screen ITV NEWS EXCLUSIVE: 100 dead in gym !!
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 20:12   #28
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corrupt and insecure governments attack people with exagerated force, angry vengeful people take over a school full of innocents fully prepared to take them with them in glorious death, media crews scurry up to school windows to show news show audiences the entertaining bodies of dead children.
the human races positive facets are far far outweighed by its despicable qualities.
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 20:15   #29
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it looks like some of the terrorists didnt believe in dying all that much after all and tried to make a break for it


it also didnt help that it seems members of the public went home and got their guns out to shoot back at the terrorists

nice to see they got hold of one of the buggers though....though as a neighbouring state they will probably have less sympathy now for the chechan situation...why there if their beef is with moscow?

talk about shitting in your own nest..they have managed to completely piss of the country next door
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Old 03-Sep-2004, 20:18   #30
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corrupt and insecure governments attack people with exagerated force, angry vengeful people take over a school full of innocents fully prepared to take them with them in glorious death, media crews scurry up to school windows to show news show audiences the entertaining bodies of dead children.
the human races positive facets are far far outweighed by its despicable qualities.
like I said...angry and vengeful people go for completely the wrong target and go for a neighbouring state who may have had some sympathy before this started.

you notice that the rebel leader in chechenya instantly distanced himself from it

lunatics with a death wish and no planning by the looks of it
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