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Old 08-Sep-2015, 16:07   #151
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Oh come on, take the first one on the list, its basically a statement that Blair should be tried for war crimes, just couched in soft language. Ditto the clause 4 one

The only 2 that are hyper sensationalised / media generated are the Russian link and the privvy council one (and I suspect the Russian one is fine in the removed context)

I'm not sure why this should concern anyone who likes Corbyn, these are after all policies they generally support.
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Old 09-Sep-2015, 15:12   #152
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For the first one if the Express headline had read "Blair could face war crime trial" then that would have been fair. However they instead used must rather than could. This is completely misrepresenting his statement to be one of a zealot rather than a man of justice, and is just one example, the very first molecule of water that represents the tip of the iceberg, of the insidious way that the right wing press acts when it doesn't like a politician.

Can't be arsed to explain the rest of them to you, I'm sure you are actually capable of reading the difference between could and must, should and shall, might and will, etc., etc..
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Old 10-Sep-2015, 12:40   #153
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This is quite interesting, with some positives and (mostly) negatives for Corbyn:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-ashcroft-poll

More love for Blair than you might have expected from 2010 and 2015 Labour voters, and not a lot of love for either immigrants or welfare.
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Old 10-Sep-2015, 21:18   #154
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oh 9/10 cats prefer KittyKat, the other 67% lick their balls.
I'm Labour voter/member and no Tory cunt surveyed me or other voters/members I know.
Is poll now a posh word for guess? or does he read the responses to daily mail articles on facebook and get down on the publics level?

also this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34205212 lol, everyone I know must've been getting about 5 emails from Labour A DAY, even an email from a deputy hopeful complaining about the amount of emails we have been getting. YO DAWG, I HEARD THESE EMAILS PISS YOU OFF SO I EMAILED YOU
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 06:26   #155
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You're a special snowflake and it can only be interesting if they've spoken to you?
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 10:00   #156
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Wooly from memory you're in Wigan (or somewhere close, apologies if I'm completely off the mark!)? That's been Labour for over a hundred years; a poll is simply not going to bother calling people there.
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 10:33   #157
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It was an online poll of about 3,500 people, including folks who had voted for Labour in both 2010 and 2015. Not perfect of course, but enough to be interesting.
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 11:50   #158
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Ive been getting emails asking me to tell them who I voted for. I just answered that I had voted and refused to answer anything else. I only semi-believe (probably not even that much tbh) the stories about people being kicked out after voting for Corbyn, but Im not going to give them an opportunity. Oh and if you were only getting 5 emails a day, you were one of the lucky ones... I was getting about 9 a day. Even AFTER I had voted.
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 12:08   #159
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Yeah, that's not the method they use for these types of polls.
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 18:43   #160
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I stand corrected!
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 11:47   #161
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Corbyn's absolutely smashed it with 60% of the vote in the first round. PMQs next week might actually be worth a watch.
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 12:09   #162
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*Waves* to Labour
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 12:12   #163
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Corbyn received over 80% of those Labour registered individual members. Regardless of whether most of those were Tories (!) he has a concrete mandate across the entire party. What a colossal shift.


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Old 12-Sep-2015, 12:32   #164
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Corbyn's absolutely smashed it with 60% of the vote in the first round. PMQs next week might actually be worth a watch.
Yep, Corbyn will get a few wins along the way, but he's going to take a weekly battering that the press are going to make sure gets fully covered.
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 12:47   #165
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I think I'll sit back and watch Labour explode over the next couple of month
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 12:52   #166
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At least they'll explode with a great deal of enthusiasm. Fun for everyone.
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 13:41   #167
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Corbyn to be the one who relates to the general public in the same vein as Farage, Watson to be the one who takes the charge in 2020. Anyone else see this as a possibility?
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 14:21   #168
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I dont believe its reasonable to begin writing him off for the next election yet. Sure, he is currently an outsider but a lot can happen in 5 years. As John Prescott has pointed out (worth mentioning, Prescott endorsed Andy Burnham), Corbyn has won this leadership election with a higher percentage of the vote than Blair did in the 90s. Its far too early to just write him off because the electorate have dared to stray from the Blairite manner of thinking.

All the shadow cabinet members resigning is a good thing if you ask me. It gives Corbyn the chance to put new people in place that are actually going to support the more left wing politics he is going to instill.
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 14:52   #169
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It's entirely reasonable.
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 16:20   #170
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Yup. From what i understand from their post election analysis Labour's key problems at the last election was their stance on (amongst other things) the economy, immigration and welfare - the electorate just didn't trust them on these issues. The party's response? Elect as leader a chap who has limited leadership experience, will eliminate austerity and introduce a programme of more spending and borrowing (particularly to support more welfare) and wants to allow a greater number of refugees into this country. Regardless of where you stand on those issues, the electorate was clear that they do not want this and the Tories will have a field day with him.

Immediately after the election I predicted that Labour would become Newer New Labour. That was their only way back. They've gone completely the other way. It's utterly utterly bonkers. And amusing
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 11:11   #171
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Yup. From what i understand from their post election analysis Labour's key problems at the last election was their stance on (amongst other things) the economy, immigration and welfare - the electorate just didn't trust them on these issues. The party's response? Elect as leader a chap who has limited leadership experience, will eliminate austerity and introduce a programme of more spending and borrowing (particularly to support more welfare) and wants to allow a greater number of refugees into this country. Regardless of where you stand on those issues, the electorate was clear that they do not want this and the Tories will have a field day with him.

Immediately after the election I predicted that Labour would become Newer New Labour. That was their only way back. They've gone completely the other way. It's utterly utterly bonkers. And amusing
Why would an opposition that's basically Tory Lite be their way back though? If people were in favour of Conservative policies then they are going to just vote Conservative instead of the diluted version (as happened in the last election).

If Labour are supposed to be the Left side of opposition, then this at least gives them a clearer voice that the more like-minded might vote for. What options was there for the last election? You had Labour as an aspiring Conservative party, Liberal Democrats who were happy siding with the Conservative party to their own demise or the Greens who are too small to make much inroads.
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 12:11   #172
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I like Tom Watson. Seems technologically competent and generally capable. Constituents of his that I know say he's effective locally. Not read anything about Corbyn at all.
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 13:14   #173
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Why would an opposition that's basically Tory Lite be their way back though? If people were in favour of Conservative policies then they are going to just vote Conservative instead of the diluted version (as happened in the last election).

If Labour are supposed to be the Left side of opposition, then this at least gives them a clearer voice that the more like-minded might vote for. What options was there for the last election? You had Labour as an aspiring Conservative party, Liberal Democrats who were happy siding with the Conservative party to their own demise or the Greens who are too small to make much inroads.
New Labour weren't "Tory lite" (ignoring semantics that's a terminology issue the party currently suffers from, hence its current position), they were centrist, and slightly left of that with their redistributive policies. I agree that if labour went back to being New then there wouldn't be a great deal of difference between the parties (given that the Tories have moved centrist) but frankly that's what the electorate have said they want, and there are tangible differences between New Labour and the current Tories to make it worth voting. However, if you feel that Miliband represented an aspiring conservative party then that's a problem with how labour were being perceived unfortunately, because that's just incorrect im afraid.

The problem with labours current position is that they think they can convince the electorate. Absent a Greece style economic collapse with a Syriza-esque victory, that's at best wishful thinking and at worst pure arrogance; the latter being classic Old Labour.

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Old 13-Sep-2015, 13:20   #174
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The only Corbyn will do is to push moderate Labour supporters even further to the right, and subsequently to other parties. He'll retain his pool of die hard Labourites but will only weaken the party as a whole.

Labour will have no chance of winning whilst he is there... not necessarily a bad thing.
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 14:02   #175
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The Tories have always been vulnerable on their right on issues like Europe and immigration. If Labour give them more space in the centre then they can afford to pander to these more deranged elements to keep their party more cohesive.

As an aside, the consensus view is that this is a massive win for the Tories, which on balance it probably is, but just remember that everyone had Corbyn as a rank outsider at the start of the contest (at odds of hundreds-to-one). That was evidently a misjudgment and they ought not to be too complacent.
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 15:54   #176
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Been away for the weekend and was shocked to find the world hadn't ended over the weekend despite the minority opposition internal election ending.

As to the small-c tory high fiving. Pretend I inserted some old news articles about Maggie being the end of the Conservatives and the split regional vote meaning she'd never beat Callaghan or some shit. I can't be fucked wasting the time actually finding them.
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 16:40   #177
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 19:05   #178
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 19:45   #179
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Well they were right about the pogroms. Just had the wrong party.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 01:27   #180
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That's surely slanderous?
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