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Old 14-Sep-2015, 07:41   #181
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Haha, yes. The Labour Party is now a terrorist organisation.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 08:43   #182
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So when does Cameron order the drone strike on Corbyn?
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 08:44   #183
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That's surely slanderous?
Only in the same way the 48 hours to save the NHS was slanderous.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 08:46   #184
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The security angle will stick. Expect to hear Corbyn's "friends in Hamas" and McDonnell's "IRA should be honoured" lines along...
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 09:07   #185
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It's based on Corbyn quotes. I'd argue it's factual.

A man who, if he could, would abandon Trident, leave NATO, disband the armed forces, print money, implement a maximum wage, leave the EU and allow uncontrolled immigration... whilst also listing several "bad" organisations as his friends.

Awesome.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 09:13   #186
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And there was me thinking we had dealt with the difference between newspapers and reality a few pages ago.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 09:36   #187
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To be fair to Ferg, I think the caveat "if he could" is right.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 09:37   #188
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Corbyn is the crappy prize at the shit end of a game that didn't go to plan. Largely because the top player went and died on us;

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...prime-minister
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 09:41   #189
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whether its true or not, thinking of instigating a position of "minister for Jews" is possibly the best so far.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 09:44   #190
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To be fair to Ferg, I think the caveat "if he could" is right.
Are you going to make me re-list the interviews, questions and situations from which those drastically polarised piles of shit emerged? And I'm going to assume you stopped reading before the "bad organisations" because that's very thin conversational ice.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 09:51   #191
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If you like, but his instinct is to do all that Ferg listed, but to your earlier point he'll have the rest of the PLP to contend with making things like NATO withdrawal and EU exit very challenging for him to adopt as a platform.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:05   #192
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Right tell you what. I'll split the difference. Over half the country wants shot of Trident so whatever. Corbyn wouldn't be the first PM to print money in recent years and leaving the EU is hardly the reserve of far right/left politics.

So - let's talk about the unique parts;

His instinct is to leave NATO.
His instinct is to introduce a maximum wage.
His instinct is to disband the armed services.
His instinct is to allow uncontrolled immigration.

Care to take responsibility for the burden of proof off Ferg for any of this?
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:11   #193
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I'm not sure,we'll see how the Trident position plays out when the Tories and the press are banging on about security for the next 18 months. The money printing point will make it difficult for the Tories to make too much capital off the point, although Corbyn's position is nonsense...

I'm on a plane today, so I'll plead the 5th for the time being. He's Chairman or President of STW Coalition. I recall some comments to a Scottish newspaper about a maximum wage. Not sure on immigration, I think that'll be one of the trickier issues for him to deal with given the views of much of voting Britain.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:12   #194
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Missed your leaving the EU point - I do think that's been characterised as the preserve of swivel eyed Tories for the last 15 years, I've probably overlooked the Eurosceptic left.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:20   #195
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What I'm really trying to get to is the working behind peoples ultra confident characterisation of a man who most people hadn't heard of or ever clapped eyes on prior to May 2015.

I'll be frank - I think a lot of people who I think are generally very bright have read as far as the fold on this guy then turned off the thing between their ears in favour of picking up a stone and joining in. If there's better justification for some of the positions here I'm still not seeing it because when I get below the fold, away from the fucking paper altogether and start reading PMQ's, report pieces, blogs and interviews I simply end up in a different place on the guy.

Uncontrolled immigration, maximum wage and no army? This is the sort of hilariously ignorant, misunderstood speculation that would have had someone laughed off this forum before this election and I have no idea why any of it seems realistic to anyone now. It sure as fuck does't appear to be realistic to Corbyn no matter how far left he is.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:28   #196
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If it's not realistic he shouldn't be advocating it then:

http://m.heraldscotland.com/politics..._maximum_wage/

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"Why is it that bankers on massive salaries require bonuses to work while street-cleaners require threats to make them work? It’s a kind philosophical question really. There ought to be a maximum wage. The levels of inequality in Britain are getting worse.”
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:39   #197
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And yet you have previously agreed that the rising pay gap is untenable in the long term, especially in the case of London. Are you unfit to manage by extension of your agreeing with JC? Or does his base point around this, that workers are being systematically priced out of housing not require the addressing that you say it does?
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:42   #198
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I recognise that the guardian isn't / wasn't pro-Corbyn, but

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...y-corbyn-think
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:51   #199
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Nersh: there's enough out there to form a view of the man and, quite frankly, if he's been misjudged he hasn't done a satisfactory job of explaining himself to the media. Perhaps he could have used his victory speech as a platform for that, instead of peddling the same generic socialist nonsense that has been recited in the papers? On the contrary, his message since being elected as Labour leader has been to whinge about media intrusion and dodge tricky interviews.

There's obviously a great deal of bullshit on him out there, but there's plenty of content to form a view, irrespective of when he appeared on the political scene to the vast majority of us. We attack him not because we know too little, but because he's clearly a relic of an age very few want back.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:54   #200
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Well reasoned. Here's an interesting part though;

Quote:
if he's been misjudged he hasn't done a satisfactory job of explaining himself to the media.
Speaking only personally, I'd rather a politician that doesn't feel the need to. Because honestly, fuck most of the media. Do you really see that interface with an international, hostile, commercial entity as a prerequisite for ministerial suitability?
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 10:59   #201
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I agree with you on that - media intrusion is one of the reasons I personally would seriously think twice about participating in politics. But, rightly or wrongly, for a politician the media is a necessary evil; although they were hardly his mates to begin with(!), he's shown his naivety by alienating them - or solidifying the gap - on day one.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 11:02   #202
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This gem showed up on the Conservative Youtube Channel yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hgJokgNJHo
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 11:07   #203
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I agree with you on that - media intrusion is one of the reasons I personally would seriously think twice about participating in politics. But, rightly or wrongly, for a politician the media is a necessary evil; although they were hardly his mates to begin with(!), he's shown his naivety by alienating them - or solidifying the gap - on day one.
So talking to Hamas is a hanging offence. Talking to News Corp is a necessary evil.

More seriously though, naivety? Possible to interpret his disinterest as a pragmatic position of "fuck em, I'm spending my time doing something with a point"?
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 11:13   #204
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Of course it's naivety. He can spend time doing all he likes, but other than those already hard lefters, the electorate will know nothing about it, including those young people he's so dependent upon to win the election, who are the biggest consumers of both old and new media for their political information.

It's as if he thinks he can continue being a backbencher without accepting any of the consequences of his position as leadership of the opposition.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 11:14   #205
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This gem showed up on the Conservative Youtube Channel yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hgJokgNJHo
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I do not know when or how this tragedy will end. But we will fight on for as long as it takes to see Senator Pinochet returned safely to his own country. Chileans can rest assured that, however contemptibly this Labour Government behaves, the British people still believe in loyalty to their friends.

Yeah.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 11:17   #206
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Of course it's naivety. He can spend time doing all he likes, but other than those already hard lefters, the electorate will know nothing about it, including those young people he's so dependent upon to win the election, who are the biggest consumers of both old and new media for their political information.

It's as if he thinks he can continue being a backbencher without accepting any of the consequences of his position as leadership of the opposition.
And yet I'm fairly sure we all just watched and spent weeks discussing a massively high profile Opposition Leadership election which he won with a decisive mandate. Not to mention the out and out miracle of a new shadow cabinet pick making all the front pages on a Monday morning. Like that's ever happened.

Either a slick and well orchestrated media campaign matters as you say and I've imagined all this, or his decision not to give a fuck has worked well for him. I don't see how both can be true.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 11:21   #207
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Every leadership election for the Tories and Labour is well covered by the media - this of course attracted increased media attention for the underdog element. Since then Corbyn's victory has been peppered all over the papers as it's unparalleled and comical in its futility by what used to be a serious political party only a short while ago.

In short, it's tragic. And we all love a tragedy.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 11:24   #208
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I'm yet to find non crystal ball related cause to agree with that.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 11:26   #209
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True. Predictions in politics are for fools, but if he ever becomes PM you can certainly hold me to owing you quite a few beers; preferably at the airport on my way out!
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 14:46   #210
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Kind of pointless predicting the future, but I think the opinions here will be the largest benefit going forward

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http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-and-heres-why

Finally someone with a clue on the left starts extracting capital out of this circus.
Corbyn in charge will at least be a shift in discussing and challenging on issues that Labour base clearly want when it comes to the likes of austerity, corporate wealth, inequality etc. I mean, first day we already have a Minister for Mental Health (thumbs up) and a shadow cabinet of 50% women (thumbs up). Don't have to agree with all his points, I'll just be happy if we can shift some of the talking points on Government policy that has dominated the last 5 years without much of a challenge.

Whether that would carry through to an election? *shrugs*
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