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Old 14-Mar-2018, 08:21   #1
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All Hail Our Russian Overlords

Seeing as the Russian situation could well have some legs I thought it deserved it's own thread.

Can anyone really see May standing up to Putin and doing something meaningful?
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 08:40   #2
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The US don't care. Europe don't care slightly less. Short of confiscating half of Weybridge which is likely illegal anyway I don't see that she's got shit. Be a few people kicked onto a plane I guess but what else?
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 08:55   #3
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Some kind of Magintsky Law or other enhanced financial sanctions, pulling England from the World Cup (which I don’t think is as crazy as it sounds) or sanctioning RT in some way.

Turning them to dust was mentioned a while ago.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 09:04   #4
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Can anyone really see May standing up to Putin and doing something meaningful?
Nope. Sounded like an empty threat to me and Im sure it sounded the same to Putin.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 10:09   #5
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Some kind of Magintsky Law or other enhanced financial sanctions, pulling England from the World Cup (which I donít think is as crazy as it sounds) or sanctioning RT in some way.
I'd swap or for and.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 10:31   #6
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Haven't seen hardly any coverage about another Russian that died under suspicious circumstances in London too:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...is-london-home

Another critic of Putin's and a friend of Boris Berezovsky, seems like he's "cleaning house" at the moment.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 10:45   #7
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The thing that surprises me most of all is how these Russians are living here in such a blatant fashion. I would've thought it to be basic tradecraft... Russian people working for or supporting us, who are known to Russia, new identities, money so they don't need to work, small communities.

These people were known within the community and by there friends by there real names.

I think we have to shoulder at least part of the blame, as it's just rubbing Putin's nose in it. How can he accept the message that you can betray him and live out your days completely normally in another country?
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 11:01   #8
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I've read that typically under the deals that the nerve gas chap was under its considered bad form because the regime has already agreed to the consequences of the spy swap. So in effect Russia had already accepted this when they released him, which combined with the fact that he had been milked dry years ago is why he was in the open. Putin lets be honest is just highlighting to all the other exiles that they aren't safe to cross him, hence stopped the next defector.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 11:08   #9
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If I were involved I would never assume agreement to a spy swap ensured safety.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 12:48   #10
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I've read that typically under the deals that the nerve gas chap was under its considered bad form because the regime has already agreed to the consequences of the spy swap. So in effect Russia had already accepted this when they released him, which combined with the fact that he had been milked dry years ago is why he was in the open. Putin lets be honest is just highlighting to all the other exiles that they aren't safe to cross him, hence stopped the next defector.
Well Putin used to be a big wig in the KGB before he seized power so he's well used to all the machinations of this "industry". He wouldn't think twice about getting rid of opponents either, especially when he can seemingly do so without any repercussions.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 13:45   #11
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Originally Posted by PsYcHoKiLLa View Post
Haven't seen hardly any coverage about another Russian that died under suspicious circumstances in London too:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...is-london-home

Another critic of Putin's and a friend of Boris Berezovsky, seems like he's "cleaning house" at the moment.
Not suspicious from what they said on the news last night.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 13:49   #12
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UK expels 23 Russian diplomats.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...ontent=sitemap

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Old 14-Mar-2018, 14:02   #13
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Well the immediate repercussion is that no one is going to do any deals with Russia for the foreseeable.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 16:29   #14
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Corbyn predictably weak as fuck on this, despite McDonnell appearing to be quite good.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 17:05   #15
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He's not wrong as regards intelligence in politics but it was a damnfool way to say it.
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Old 14-Mar-2018, 17:42   #16
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Corbyn really needs to get his time and place sensibilities checked
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 01:05   #17
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I always like how there is a relevant Yes Prime Minister clip.

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Old 15-Mar-2018, 10:27   #18
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Corbyn really needs to get his time and place sensibilities checked
I think to be fair to him he needs to get a lot of other things checked as well.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 11:21   #19
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France agreeing with Corbyn.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GQ2H2

Quote:
French government spokesman Benjamin Griveaux said it was too early for Paris to decide whether action should be taken and a decisions [not actions, only decisions] France’s nuanced reaction was in line with Macron’s efforts since coming into office to build a new relationship with Russia’s Vladimir Putin. Rather than directly confronting Putin through threats and megaphone diplomacy, he has emphasised private dialogue, while pushing for a restoration of business and cultural ties despite existing European Union sanctions on Moscow.] would be made only once a case of Russian involvement was proven.
We're not sticking to the OPCW rules either.

By my reading the OPCW rules allow Britain in this case to send a request to Russia on the suspected Russian-made chemical weapon and expect a response within 10 days. If the response is not satisfactory, Britain would have to file a complaint with the organization’s executive council and the conference of CWC member-states.

So you may want to lay off the Corbyn bashing lest you look silly down the line.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 11:25   #20
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Leady doesn’t need to bash Corbyn to look silly, just have a look at most of his comments on Brexit and the Trump Impeachment thread
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 11:35   #21
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That aside, one thing that did disappear in the noise is that it looks like we're getting our own version of the Magnitsky Act. Which is going to hit the Russians and paticularly Putins friends in their wallets, where it will actually hurt.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-to-...ing-1521055353
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 11:37   #22
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And again, Corbyn is being lambasted for supporting the Magnitsky act.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 11:39   #23
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Given that there's been some sort of cross party support for it for years, that is especially disingenuous.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7591656.html

http://www.cityam.com/254940/mps-mag...bill-would-see
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 11:40   #24
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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a8253786.html
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 11:53   #25
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On a more amusing note, the way the Russian MP got cut off on the R4 Today by the presenter when he Godwin'd the interview was hilarious.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8253701.html
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 12:16   #26
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Oh and here is the Russian/Putin viewpoint if anyone gives a shit.

https://www.rt.com/news/421325-nothi...nebenzya-unsc/
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 12:30   #27
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lol - Whilst there is no court of law level of proof here, lets get real and recognise only the following states (and no other entities) have the means and capability to have carried it out

US
MI5 / MI6 themselves
France
Russia
China
Israel

For the first time in history, I'll let the French off the hook even though they at least have a partial potential motive in sabotaging Russian - UK relations in the negotiations for Brexit. They are civilised ene... err allies. You need a Gunz level tin foil hat to go all false flag, ditto for the CIA. Israel have no qualms about assassination on foreign soil, but Mossad is mostly subtle and have nothing to gain. China don't appear to have an immediate gain in the murder, and in any event as the emerging superpower in the world don't need to do this type of crap. The remaining nation has the tools, motive and people and precedent going back decades.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 12:42   #28
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Who are you rebutting there? Noone is saying it isn't Russia. They're saying there is a process of confirmation to follow. Also, there seems to be exactly a court of law level of proof here from what I read about the process today. Sample goes to OPCW. International body (including Russians) gets to confirm the nature of the material with peer review. Verification is offered in an internationally accepted form, if a country is in breach the recommendation to sanction starts there. Then it can absolutely end up in court.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 13:04   #29
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Quote:
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lol - Whilst there is no court of law level of proof here, lets get real and recognise only the following states (and no other entities) have the means and capability to have carried it out

US
MI5 / MI6 themselves
France
Russia
China
Israel

For the first time in history, I'll let the French off the hook even though they at least have a partial potential motive in sabotaging Russian - UK relations in the negotiations for Brexit. They are civilised ene... err allies. You need a Gunz level tin foil hat to go all false flag, ditto for the CIA. Israel have no qualms about assassination on foreign soil, but Mossad is mostly subtle and have nothing to gain. China don't appear to have an immediate gain in the murder, and in any event as the emerging superpower in the world don't need to do this type of crap. The remaining nation has the tools, motive and people and precedent going back decades.
Iím sure the French will be glad you let them off the hook, not that they were ever on it.

Novichok has reportedly only ever been produced at one site, and attempts to replicate it by the west have failed.

Itís either Russia, which is the most likely and worrying enough, or theyíve lost some stock of the gas to a third party, which would be more worrying but also unlikely.

There are no false flags here.
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Old 15-Mar-2018, 13:06   #30
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I'm just laughing at the idea of taking a nuanced evidential position in this instance.
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