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Old 17-Feb-2017, 18:06   #541
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look on the bright side, if they ever did that the optics will limit him to four years - just one video of soldiers manhandling a pretty young woman with children and you are toast
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Old 17-Feb-2017, 18:11   #542
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The draft DHS memo that floated the national guard idea was dated the same day as Trump signed the border EO.
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Old 17-Feb-2017, 18:14   #543
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Also... Fox News is reporting that Trump was fully briefed on Flynn's conversations with the Russians and allowed Pence to be lied to.
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Old 17-Feb-2017, 18:23   #544
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But... but... Fox News != FAKE NEWS?!?!?!
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Old 17-Feb-2017, 19:16   #545
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True doublethink!
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Old 17-Feb-2017, 23:36   #546
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So, we've avoided comparing Trumps presidency to a resurgent Nazi Party, but..

Trump considers deploying national guard for immigration roundups, memo suggests

I mean, I dunno about anyone else here but enlisting the National Guard to round up Immigrants across the country, sounds awfully close to the Einsatzgruppen to me, just missing the shootings and ethnic and religious cleansing.
The important word missing from the headline is "illegal". Is there really anything wrong with a country wanting to rid itself of people who have entered a country illegally, possibly not even giving anything back to the country (if working illegally, etc)?
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Old 17-Feb-2017, 23:38   #547
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So to root them out is it ok to go round asking to see everyone's papers?
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 00:34   #548
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Ah, now there's the rub... the implementation of such a thing. You can't just randomly go around targeting anyone one of, say, Hispanic origin and ask them to show passports/ID cards.
Truthfully I've no idea how they are going to make this work, but certainly don't want to see the National Guard being used like the Gestapo!
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 00:39   #549
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Also, just watched the whole 76 mins of the press conference. I don't think the newspapers need to even bother trying to make Trump look bad... he manages it quite well himself.
My takeaway from it was the fact he only likes to answer "nice" questions in a straightforward manner as opposed to the rambling answers given to the trickier questions he faced.
The "Uranium" comment had me in stitches
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 01:19   #550
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This is pretty interesting. Trump's administration pretty clear that it'll be BAU in going straight to the source in their delivery rather than via intermediaries. Can't say I disagree with the approach
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 01:39   #551
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look on the bright side, if they ever did that the optics will limit him to four years - just one video of soldiers manhandling a pretty young woman with children and you are toast
Rubbish. This was the Democrats - how things have changed, eh.


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Old 18-Feb-2017, 01:56   #552
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But then again that was the end of months of process and escalation by specifically trained experts including the guy with the gun - even if it was a horrible end. Trump is talking about sending squaddies out from moment one. Is it even necessary? What's the aim? Higher volume of returns? Faster returns?
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 01:59   #553
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Also, what does that have to do with democrats?
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 01:59   #554
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He isn't; it's a draft memo.

What doesn't it have to do with the Democrats? It's a counterpoint
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 02:01   #555
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To what?
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 02:04   #556
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To the seemingly de rigueur belief that Trump / the Republicans are the only party against illegal immigration. It's not so long ago that Bill Clinton made this speech, totally legitimately I might add:


Acting against illegal immigration is not wrong. Protecting borders is not wrong. Deporting illegal aliens is not wrong. These are the absolutely legitimate actions of a nation state.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 02:08   #557
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I think you might be overstating the contention. Organised deportation is all good and necessary. It's the notion that soldiers should do it that seems risky.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 02:13   #558
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The Guardian article is speculative nonsense. Trump isn't sending the troops to remove illegal aliens. That being said, if they're ultimately needed as support, then so be it.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 02:17   #559
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They haven't been thus far. But then in real life, as opposed to Trump's imagination, there aren't gangs of mexican rapists roaming the streets in every city.

But hey, just within the realms of this conversation between us you actually appear to think me enough of an idiot to think that noone should ever be deported by anyone and that only Right leaning politicians would suggest it. So thanks for that.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 02:20   #560
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Whatever our differing opinions, I can sincerely say I have never thought you're an idiot; quite the contrary and it's pretty disappointing you interpret it in that way.

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Old 18-Feb-2017, 02:40   #561
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I think you might be overstating the contention. Organised deportation is all good and necessary. It's the notion that soldiers should do it that seems risky.
point of pedantry order, american "soldiers" can't be deployed on US territory. State based national guards are militia, which I think are worse than our territorials.

carry on
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 09:05   #562
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which I think are worse than our territorials.

carry on
You've clearly never been in the territorial army.

I was part of Exercise Lionheart. My respirator was in my Bergen, my respirator case contained 4 bottles of Grolsch and a handful of choccy bars.

Oh yeah, and I managed to jackknife (I'll explain what that is later, Chef) a Bedford 4 tonner with a water bowser attached on Hameln base, mainly due to not having a driving license or any experience with trailers.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 13:22   #563
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It's a shame Pence is a raving Christian fundamentalist, his speech yesterday was completely sane.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 13:53   #564
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Well he'd better keep it up because he's getting one word for every five hundred of Trump's at the moment.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 14:40   #565
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And it's not considered necessary for Trump to inform him that he's lying to the nation on behalf of Flynn.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 15:27   #566
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Merkel's face in this embedded video is pretty amusing:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...fence-spending

Perhaps put some of that surplus towards doubling your Nato contributions and meeting the minimum required (like the Greeks that are criticised so much)?
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 15:28   #567
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Minimum requested.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 15:30   #568
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Where Germany's concerned it's fair game to be an implicit requirement.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 15:40   #569
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Her face is likely the face a world leader makes when someone without a clue asks her to do something she already agreed to do a year ago. Let's be honest, Nato isn't underfunded. This is simply the thinnest action point available to be seen lobbying for once you've stripped Trump's campaign bullshit of all the parts that makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 18-Feb-2017, 15:53   #570
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It's been words for decades; she won't be in power by the time Germany increases its contributions to anywhere near the target at the rate currently increasing. It's not dangerously underfunded but that's partly because the US is contributing a great deal more to it than it needs to, and its current funding status isn't an argument to support beggar thy neighbour policies from those countries that are most capable (e.g. Germany and France). If anything it's the Greeks that should be paying far less. This is an entirely reasonable demand by the US.

Germany should think of it as simply another limb to the Euro area's convergence criteria, and act in a similar timeframe.
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