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Old 29-Jan-2017, 09:12   #1
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Post Politics 2017

Alternative Facts so Far;

Trump landslide.
Brexit definitely not beige.
Theresa Maybe.
Putin Pissing Self.
Der Oberste Führer Netanyahu.
Trident backwards spells Awkward
Farage Far Away.

Go!
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 09:15   #2
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38786660

Trump meet Constitution. Must admit I'm impressed he managed to be illegal within only a week. I'm sure his thoughts on the matter later today will be humble and reconciliatory.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 09:25   #3
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Sadly I don't think the ruling addresses whether it's constitutional. The 6am twitter flurry will be interesting as always...
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 09:44   #4
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38786656
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 09:56   #5
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38786576

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OH SHIT I didn't realise they meant Mo Farrah.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 10:16   #6
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So, what actually triggered this executive order with banning entry?
I've had a look at his immigration policies (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/immigration) and nowhere does it state such a thing would happen.
Better vetting of applicants and suspending visa issuance... but outright banning entry??
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 10:20   #7
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Speaking from memory I recall talk of a ban "while we work this thing out", which at least ties with the 90 day period (and we were all told that he didn't really mean it). It really is fucking infuriating listening to the rest of the GOP acquiescing to all of this.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 10:32   #8
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From the 100-day plan, which as Andy previously pointed out, they seem to be working through methodically.

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* FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 10:56   #9
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Aye, reporters loved their "republicans took him literally but not seriously while his supporters took him seriously but not literally" sound bite. Turns out he meant every word.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 12:16   #10
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Unless you're from one of the terrorism funding states that Trump has property in.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 12:24   #11
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Just going to refer to it all as Dickhead Politics.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 13:06   #12
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Unless you're from one of the terrorism funding states that Trump has property in.
Well quite, couldn't go banning Saudi now could he.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 13:11   #13
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Saudi, I mean whatever. They're untouchable. Turkey, too strong strategically I guess. Egypt.....
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 13:18   #14
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Well quite, couldn't go banning Saudi now could he.
Noticed Pakistan isn't on that list.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 13:19   #15
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It's already on a list. Still under US advisory for outbound travel as well.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 13:21   #16
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Fake news is real:

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/...ews-technology

TL;DR

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Old 29-Jan-2017, 13:28   #17
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Was listening to BBC World Services earlier, and they said US Special Services carried out a raid on the ground in Yemen against Al Qaeda, which I found a bit troubling, as it's the first such attack since this trouble began.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN15D08J
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 15:37   #18
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Saudi, I mean whatever. They're untouchable. Turkey, too strong strategically I guess. Egypt.....
Perhaps I've misunderstood but from what I read it doesn't include those countries because they weren't on the county travel watch list prepared by Obama's administration? Ie Trump hasn't selected these countries at all; Obama did. But hey that doesn't sound as juicy as good old conflict of interest.

Last edited by andy; 29-Jan-2017 at 15:42.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 15:59   #19
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https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence-...gees-and-visas

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Put simply, I don’t believe that the stated purpose is the real purpose. This is the first policy the United States has adopted in the post-9/11 era about which I have ever said this. It’s a grave charge, I know, and I’m not making it lightly. But in the rational pursuit of security objectives, you don’t marginalize your expert security agencies and fail to vet your ideas through a normal interagency process. You don’t target the wrong people in nutty ways when you’re rationally pursuing real security objectives.

When do you do these things? You do these things when you’re elevating the symbolic politics of bashing Islam over any actual security interest. You do them when you’ve made a deliberate decision to burden human lives to make a public point. In other words, this is not a document that will cause hardship and misery because of regrettable incidental impacts on people injured in the pursuit of a public good. It will cause hardship and misery for tens or hundreds of thousands of people because that is precisely what it is intended to do.

To be sure, the executive order does not say anything as crass as: “Sec. 14. Burdening Muslim Lives to Make Political Point.” It doesn’t need to. There’s simply no reason in reading it to ignore everything Trump said during the campaign, during which he repeatedly called for a ban on Muslims entering the United States.

Even while he was preparing to sign the order itself, he declared, "This is the ‘Protection of the Nation from Foreign Terrorist Entry into the United States.’ We all know what that means." Indeed, we do. This document is the implementation of a campaign promise to keep out Muslims moderated only by the fact that certain allied Muslim countries are left out because the diplomatic repercussions of including them would be too detrimental.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:05   #20
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Just as those countries were left out last year for presumably the same diplomatic reasons? The narrative that he has himself selected these countries is false, or an alternative fact. I forget what to term bollocks these days.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:08   #21
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Sure, now back to these banning Muslims measures...
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:08   #22
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He hasn't banned Muslims. There's quite a few from Saudi gleefully entering

He's extended the scope of the vetting put in place by the US administration last year. Whether that's right or wrong is up for debate, but it ain't a Muslim ban and it ain't because he's got vested interests in Dubai.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:09   #23
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LOL. There'll be a whole lot more consternation if white people start getting involved.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/29/po...cts/index.html
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:10   #24
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He hasn't banned Muslims. There's quite a few from Saudi gleefully entering
That's right, there's no religious angle to this at all.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:12   #25
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Well of course there is. I don't see Jews blowing themselves up regularly in the name of religion do you? Islam has serious problems with terrorism; I'd hope we could all recognise that fact.

To add, presumably this religious angle is why these countries were selected by Homeland Security last year for additional vetting?

Last edited by andy; 29-Jan-2017 at 16:17. Reason: Added second para
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:18   #26
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You seem to be defending the indefensible. Do we agree that a blanket ban on letting people in holding a certain passport (even if they had leave to remain in the US) is deeply flawed as a security measure?
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:23   #27
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I'm not defending the measure. I'm explaining that this form of discrimination by the US was already in place. It's scope has been expanded, but it was there. Did you watch Marr this morning, in which Zahawi explained that last year he needed to go for an interview with the US because of his nationality before he could be granted access to the US again? Why? Because enhanced security had been implemented which discriminated (in a non legal usage of the term) on the basis of nationality.

Putting forward an alternative view is not advocacy
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:25   #28
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Well of course there is. I don't see Jews blowing themselves up regularly in the name of religion do you? Islam has serious problems with terrorism; I'd hope we could all recognise that fact.

To add, presumably this religious angle is why these countries were selected by Homeland Security last year for additional vetting?
Per the quoted article, if they were serious about this as a national security measure they would have actually taken actions that made a difference. This has nothing to do with national security.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:26   #29
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Well of course there is. I don't see Jews blowing themselves up regularly in the name of religion do you? Islam has serious problems with terrorism; I'd hope we could all recognise that fact.
Give Islamists the same armaments as Israel has and I guarantee an end to suicide bombing.
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Old 29-Jan-2017, 16:28   #30
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Of course it could be characterised in some kind of continuum of security measures - in the same way that detaining someone without charge for 48 hours or 48 days exists on the same spectrum. There is always some balance to be drawn between the practicality of a thing and whether the discrimination goes too far.

That's setting aside the obnoxious things he's had to say on this and the extent to which he's made it virtually impossible for this to be judged as a reasonable response by anyone remotely civilised.
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