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Old 23-Dec-2009, 12:19   #1
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China fk up climate talks

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...nge-mark-lynas

China the sole reason the climate talks in Copenhagen were a failure apparently.
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Old 23-Dec-2009, 13:19   #2
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Found this on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_tragedy_of_the_commons

I think that the guardian article, while an important reportage, misses the larger point by getting all indignant as we see the first signs of the next superpower throwing its weight about. Tell me you didn't think it was all about the olympics and the pretty fire work displays did you?

It seems quite rich that during the last century, the western world which has been uncompromisingly polluting our habitat in order to maintain its fat, insulated and convenient lifestyles - now gets to turn round and point figures at China which is, to be fair, trying to raise its population, one-fifth of the world, out of poverty. The moral obligations are plainly not comparable.

The broader issue is how in a globalised free market economy the world deals with supra-national issues.

In the absence of an effective regulatory framework, or insitutions to enforce it, our current economic system of production is evidently not sustainable. The ever-expanding spiral of consumption and production driven by more and more profit cannot, permanently, lead a sustainable solution. It seems incongruous to address such an issue by trying to incorporate free market mechanisms in to the schemes of production while avoiding the underlying problem of relying on greed, the profit motive, to determine what we produce and the means of that production.

I'll go out on a limb here - but I do think that these global issues will continue to detirorate, creating conflicts and necesitating the creation of global institutions to resolve the disputes. However, the question of sustainability will not be solved under the current of model economic relations and production.
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Old 23-Dec-2009, 13:21   #3
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Right on the money, Beef.
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Old 24-Dec-2009, 15:46   #4
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I wonder how long it will be before we have our next global dust-up?

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Old 24-Dec-2009, 16:53   #5
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We aren't already?
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Old 24-Dec-2009, 19:33   #6
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Nah, i'm thinking proper global dust up, not just us trying to rough up some country which is already on it's knees.
A proper 'us against them' war. It's bound to happen sooner or later, I'd guess that it'll depend who decides first that they really don't need to trade with the other lot anymore to get by or perhaps when petrol starts becoming a bit more scarce, then we might see the proper postuering begin in earnest. It's in our nature, a paranoid, self destructive race we are. Give it 50 years and less people will be worrying about global warming thats for sure. I'll just be worrying if I can still wipe my own arse without falling off the bog and breaking something serious :/

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Old 24-Dec-2009, 21:16   #7
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Old 28-Dec-2009, 00:38   #8
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I thought the climate talks fucked themselves when Mugabe got a standing ovation from 99% of the delegates for saying the West should give him money because climate change has fucked his country.

Or it could have been that there were actually some clued up policy makers behind brown and cos posturing who did the maths and realised that a 15% reduction in 10 years only results in a 0.04 degrees farenheit reduction in the rate of increase by the UNs most extreme and unvalidated evidence.

I think in a few years Copenhagen will be the event where the developed world realised its cheaper and probably more effective to adapt to climate change then it is to wreck the worlds economy trying to do our tiny possible bit now.

Apart from Brown. Who is a fucking incompetent. and the only mug who got taken in by the Climate Justice for Africa lobby who have had a bit of trouble getting the latest mercs and bombs during the recession so its the West's fault that they have been victims of climate injustice!!11! How could anyone take the conference seriously with these lunatics running around. It was possibly the most vivid public display of why the UN doesnt work.
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